White Star fighters

[Hash]

This is it though, with all fighters giving away VPs it's the final nail in the coffin for carriers. As it is, most are borderline choices anyway but the ones that work well (e.g. Morshin and WS Carrier) are nerfed by the points system unless they annihilate their opponents in tourneys. The standard SFoS system means a little more keeping track of which fighters came from which ship but aside from that, they are much more balanced.

Yeah have to agree with that though I thought the reasoning behind making all aux craft worth 1VP in tourneys is too encourage people to take independent flights...i.e. all flights will cost the opponent 1VP so those without ships that carry lots of fighters aren't too disadvantaged.

I don't think the "solution" is ideal either and encourages people to do unusual things near the end of the battle, i.e. focusing their main weaponry on remaining fighters just to get that crucial extra VP or two...

 

[Triggy]

I don't think the "solution" is ideal either and encourages people to do unusual things near the end of the battle, i.e. focusing their main weaponry on remaining fighters just to get that crucial extra VP or two...

That's what I did against Tank and a poor roll vs one Thunderbolt prevented the draw! (although there weren't enough fighters there to claim a win)

Even 1VP per paid for fighter doesn't work that well as WS fighters really should be giving away slightly more than Kothas!!! Standard VPs for wiping out entire paid for wings and 25% rounding down to a minimum of 1VP for any damage taken on a wing of fighters seems more sensible to me. If more than one paid for wing is taken of a certain type, it doesn't matter where the casualties come from, as soon as enough of that type are killed, it counts as an entire wing destroyed.

 

[katadder]

so in a 5pt raid game you want 5vps per WS fighter destroyed? personaly i dont think any fighters should give away VPs unless they are bought as a wing. if they come on a carrier then the carrier already represents the VPs to do with killing them as after all most carriers are only worth about a level below as a ship. so if you count VPs for every fighter off a carrier perhaps you should only value a carrier or other ship carrying fighters as one PL left for VPs.

 

[Triggy]

so in a 5pt raid game you want 5vps per WS fighter destroyed? personaly i dont think any fighters should give away VPs unless they are bought as a wing. if they come on a carrier then the carrier already represents the VPs to do with killing them as after all most carriers are only worth about a level below as a ship. so if you count VPs for every fighter off a carrier perhaps you should only value a carrier or other ship carrying fighters as one PL left for VPs.

If my point was unclear then I was agreeing with you

Paid for wings should give away points as per the PL of the wing. Flights that come with carriers ought to give away no victory points.

 

[Methos5000]

so in a 5pt raid game you want 5vps per WS fighter destroyed? personaly i dont think any fighters should give away VPs unless they are bought as a wing. if they come on a carrier then the carrier already represents the VPs to do with killing them as after all most carriers are only worth about a level below as a ship. so if you count VPs for every fighter off a carrier perhaps you should only value a carrier or other ship carrying fighters as one PL left for VPs.

If my point was unclear then I was agreeing with you

Paid for wings should give away points as per the PL of the wing. Flights that come with carriers ought to give away no victory points.

I thought this was mentioned in SFOS. Independent bought wings give victory points based on their priority level per wing. So destroying 3 Independent Starfuries would generate a Patrol Point of VPs. But any that were on a ship give 0 VP since their cost is factored into the ship.

And I never understood the FAQ update in Armageddon that only specifies Shadow Fighters giving away 1 VP. I think the way SFOS listed it is perfect, you can field your fighters from your ships freely but it might cost you if you bring in more independent wings.

 

[Triggy]

That's exactly the point though, Armageddon confused the issue probably because it was being based off of Mongoose's standard tournament points scoring rather than the generic SFoS scoring. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Target]

Just skimmed read the thread.
My thoughts wings purchased give VP's , fighters from carriers/ships shouldn't. Guessing they said all give VP's as saves keeping track of what fighter was from where.
I would scrap wings give everyone patrol ships & fighters on ships.

 

[TGT]

can someone then give the definitive VPs for white star fighters in tourneys please?

 

[Triggy]

Tourneys use SFoS rules unless otherwise stated (like in the Masters of War rulepack that was also used at Wargames Workshop).

 

[TGT]

Independently bought wings give victory points based on their priority level per wing.
But any that were on a ship give 0 VP since their cost is factored into the ship.

 

[Reaverman]

Independently bought wings give victory points based on their priority level per wing.
But any that were on a ship give 0 VP since their cost is factored into the ship.

That it was, until a Rulesmaster thread raised by Burger I think. Which Matt stated, that VP's were awared in Tourney AND Non-Tourney games. IMHO, it was an error. Like all who have mentioned before, it should only be awarded to craft bought outside of Caps. Otherwise, its actually going to put people off buying carriers. I mean who is going to use an Avenger, or a Poseidon when it means the playeris are handing over VP's.

 

[Gargoyle117]

I figured this would be a decent place to post a question about white star fighters, since everyone here is familiar with them. I just started playing (only one game with another new player) and am trying to learn some of the rules quirks. Unfortunately I have not gotten my hands on a copy of Armageddon yet, but I am trying.

Whitestar Fighters have a Dodge of 3 and Hull of 5. Does this mean that ships firing at them outside of a dogfight must roll an 8 or higher? Effectively making it so that only SAP weapons could hit them? If this is the case I would think that they could be very usefull when the come in on a carrier.

Why do you use WS-Fighters or why do you not use them? I'm curious to see how people make use of them.

Thank you

 

[Triggy]

No, that means they have a Hull of 5 and you roll to hit as normal. Any hits that are scored are ignored if you roll 3+ for the dodge roll on each hit. Any hit that gets past the dodge kills the fighter.

 

[Iain McGhee]

No, you only need to equal or beat the hull score to hit it. Then for each hit scored (note that some hits can cause multiple damage points, specifically x2 and x3 damage weapons) you roll again and if you equal or exceed the dodge score the shot misses. Same as you do for regular fighters and the rare ship that has a dodge score.

Beat me by 3 minutes Triggy !
Damn my sausage fingers

 

[Gargoyle117]

I'm sorry, I miss-stated myself. I meant to say they have a 3 Dogfight rating and a 5 Hull. Don't you add the dogfight rating to the hull score to determine how difficult it is to hit them? I believe that's what the rules are up until SfoS. Does armageddon change this?

Thank you.

 

[lastbesthope]

I'm sorry, I miss-stated myself. I meant to say they have a 3 Dogfight rating and a 5 Hull. Don't you add the dogfight rating to the hull score to determine how difficult it is to hit them? I believe that's what the rules are up until SfoS. Does armageddon change this?

Thank you.

No, if you are in a dogfight, each flight rolls 1 dice, add the CQ and Dogfight scores (plus any adjustments for supporting flights or other mosifiers) highest score wins and the losing flight is destroyed.

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

can someone then give the definitive VPs for white star fighters in tourneys please?

THere is no definitive ruling for VP in tourneys, depends on the tourney rule set.

But the most recent Mongoose tourney ruled 1 VP per flight of auxiliary craft whether based on a mother ship or independent wing.

LBH

 

[Burger]

I'm sorry, I miss-stated myself. I meant to say they have a 3 Dogfight rating and a 5 Hull. Don't you add the dogfight rating to the hull score to determine how difficult it is to hit them? I believe that's what the rules are up until SfoS. Does armageddon change this?

The dogfight score is totally ignored, unless you're in a dogfight. Then it adds to the crew quality and a D6 and +1's for supporting flights, to resolve the winner of the dogfight. It was that way in SFOS and doesn't change in Armageddon.