Which Real World Culture Needs a RuneQuest Book Next???

[zozotroll]

Crusaders is also great! I had a lot of fun with it, atleast in part because going in, I knew nothing about the time and area. Now I know much more.

One of the best games I ever played in was a roman one. One of us was a Centurian in charge of the 9th Cohort of whatever Legion. The goal was to try to get him advanced. All the rest of us where subordinates of one sort or another. I was a celt barbarian, and during the sack of a city I used the time honored method of catching one of the superior Centurians alone and killing him. Instant promotion.

I dont recall anybody thinking it was less fun because it followed a historical path. In History or fantasy, a bunch of junior officers dont get to direct the course of the war.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Crusaders is also great! I had a lot of fun with it, atleast in part because going in, I knew nothing about the time and area. Now I know much more.

One of the best games I ever played in was a roman one. One of us was a Centurian in charge of the 9th Cohort of whatever Legion. The goal was to try to get him advanced. All the rest of us where subordinates of one sort or another. I was a celt barbarian, and during the sack of a city I used the time honored method of catching one of the superior Centurians alone and killing him. Instant promotion.

I dont recall anybody thinking it was less fun because it followed a historical path. In History or fantasy, a bunch of junior officers dont get to direct the course of the war.

I suppose a question would be, if you saw a BRP supplement detailing Ancient Egypt, would you expect to see campaign details for Ushabti, haunted pyramids and gods? The answer has to be 'yes', because, if you really wanted, you could miss that stuff out of your campaign anyway.

Again, when people talk of BRP supplements for Mesoamerica, they want blood sacrifice, vengeful gods, etc., etc.. What they dont want, is a dry essay on Triple Alliance economics, because that information is freely available elsewhere. People dont want an expensive textbook, do they?

 

[RosenMcStern]

Carthage just didnt have the resources or the friends to overthrow Rome. Even in its infancy.

I doubt this can be called a fact. Carthage was even richer than Rome at the time. For several reasons, Hannibal was not able to deal the killing blow, but he went very close to it.

Its NOT about historical gaming. It remains that Runequest/BRP is PRIMARILY a fantasy system. Yes, you can use it for other things such as roleplaying a Roman farmer or an Egyptian tomb robber. The point is, you will not use Runequest in its entirity to do so. You are using aspects of it.

What you say here is valid for RuneQuest, but not for BRP in general. I have never played a magic-less game of RuneQuest, but a game of BRP without supernatural elements is not out of the question.

I havent been convinced to shell out 30 quid on a book which could possibly be entirely composed of duplicated facts from my library.

It depends on the size of your library

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Carthage just didnt have the resources or the friends to overthrow Rome. Even in its infancy.

I doubt this can be called a fact. Carthage was even richer than Rome at the time. For several reasons, Hannibal was not able to deal the killing blow, but he went very close to it.

Its NOT about historical gaming. It remains that Runequest/BRP is PRIMARILY a fantasy system. Yes, you can use it for other things such as roleplaying a Roman farmer or an Egyptian tomb robber. The point is, you will not use Runequest in its entirity to do so. You are using aspects of it.

What you say here is valid for RuneQuest, but not for BRP in general. I have never played a magic-less game of RuneQuest, but a game of BRP without supernatural elements is not out of the question.

I havent been convinced to shell out 30 quid on a book which could possibly be entirely composed of duplicated facts from my library.

It depends on the size of your library

I meant that Hannibal didnt have sufficient influence or freinds upon the Italian peninsula. Also, he didnt have the backing of the Carthaginian elite. Even if had have took Rome, he couldnt have held onto it.

As I have said, I have no problem with games based upon historical cultures. What I DO have a probelm with are expensive textbooks, where the author has fell into the trap of describing historical detail with little or no reference to the game system. This happens quite a lot in my experience. Authors should remember that they are not writing historical documents but game supplements.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

There are a number of problems related to Historical RPG's - though they are not unique to them, and can apply to any game with a detailed setting, be it one invented for the game, or a licenced product from film/TV/Fiction.

Firstly, if you know (next to) nothing about the setting, then well researched, detailed background is like reading a text book, and not necessarily interesting or useful for actual play. There is also the fear that you may discover that your players know more about the setting than you, which can cause problems.

Alternatively if you have a very deep knowledge of the setting then you may find you disagree with the assumptions of the author, or the way he has converted the facts into gameable material (This is equally true if your "Deep Knowledge" is actually wrong, of course!)

Then there is a question of scope and scale. If I decide to run a "WW2" game do I need to cover the whole conflict and all the theatres of war, or should I limit it to a small geograpical area or a single campaign. Should my PC's be interacting with civilians and/or "rank and file" soldiers who are forgotten to history, or with the likes of Churchill and Monty?
Should we be playing in "true" historical settings, and stick rigidly to actual events, or a fictionalised version of the setting where things start out following the "real" history. but with the players able to affect the outcome, or just a "loosely based on" the actual setting "You are a troop of Home Guard in Walmington-on-Sea" or "You are all connected to the French Resistance in the town of Nouvion (or for a more serious campaign,
"Le Candide" )? - I'll be looking for very different things from the sourcebook depending which I choose.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Carthage just didnt have the resources or the friends to overthrow Rome. Even in its infancy.

I doubt this can be called a fact. Carthage was even richer than Rome at the time. For several reasons, Hannibal was not able to deal the killing blow, but he went very close to it.

I meant that Hannibal didnt have sufficient influence or freinds upon the Italian peninsula. Also, he didnt have the backing of the Carthaginian elite.

Exactly. It was a matter of politics, not of military might. Rome showed more cohesion, and in the end it had the upper hand. Hannibal had already been defeated by internecine struggles when Scipio beat him on the battlefield.

But this is way more interesting to roleplay than a field battle involving elephants. Especially because the Player Characters can easily play a role in a Carthaginian power play, and make Hannibal win!

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

I doubt this can be called a fact. Carthage was even richer than Rome at the time. For several reasons, Hannibal was not able to deal the killing blow, but he went very close to it.

I meant that Hannibal didnt have sufficient influence or freinds upon the Italian peninsula. Also, he didnt have the backing of the Carthaginian elite.

Exactly. It was a matter of politics, not of military might. Rome showed more cohesion, and in the end it had the upper hand. Hannibal had already been defeated by internecine struggles when Scipio beat him on the battlefield.

But this is way more interesting to roleplay than a field battle involving elephants. Especially because the Player Characters can easily play a role in a Carthaginian power play, and make Hannibal win!

Perhaps. :lol:

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

There are a number of problems related to Historical RPG's - though they are not unique to them, and can apply to any game with a detailed setting, be it one invented for the game, or a licenced product from film/TV/Fiction.

Firstly, if you know (next to) nothing about the setting, then well researched, detailed background is like reading a text book, and not necessarily interesting or useful for actual play. There is also the fear that you may discover that your players know more about the setting than you, which can cause problems.

Alternatively if you have a very deep knowledge of the setting then you may find you disagree with the assumptions of the author, or the way he has converted the facts into gameable material (This is equally true if your "Deep Knowledge" is actually wrong, of course!)

Then there is a question of scope and scale. If I decide to run a "WW2" game do I need to cover the whole conflict and all the theatres of war, or should I limit it to a small geograpical area or a single campaign. Should my PC's be interacting with civilians and/or "rank and file" soldiers who are forgotten to history, or with the likes of Churchill and Monty?
Should we be playing in "true" historical settings, and stick rigidly to actual events, or a fictionalised version of the setting where things start out following the "real" history. but with the players able to affect the outcome, or just a "loosely based on" the actual setting "You are a troop of Home Guard in Walmington-on-Sea" or "You are all connected to the French Resistance in the town of Nouvion (or for a more serious campaign,
"Le Candide" )? - I'll be looking for very different things from the sourcebook depending which I choose.

I agree entirely. I guess its just down to the calibre of the author to make a balance between 'realism' and 'gameability'. That was my initial point, that so often, the historical supplements tend towards realism, rather than adapting the period into game terms. One can say that the supplement could be used for this or that eventuality, but, often, there will be no suggestions on how to go about it 'in game'.

 

[soltakss]

Cut, cut, cut don't quote the whole message - we have probably read it already.

Anyone with an interest in history will have different opinions on any historical sourcebook. Look at the many different opinions expressed in history textbooks and non-fiction.

However, that isn't really the point.

A good supplement will inspire a GM or players to want to play in a particular setting. The setting need not be that detailed or that accurate, as long as it is interesting and thought-provoking.

Whether a setting focuses on the Roman Republic or Roman Empire is less important than what it contains. The fact that Hannibal did not defeat the Romans is less important than the fact that he could have defeated them. In any case, playing a game set in that time would be interesting.

Putting aside any deep-rooted dislike of historical gaming, I really can't see what you have to object about regarding BRP Rome. Sure, it's expensive but people are still buying it. It doesn't have fully-fleshed out scenarios but a supplement does. I bought it even though I prefer RQ to BRP and I wasn't particularly disappointed. I'd have preferred more hard-gaming material but that's because I am a hard-gamer. I've read enough about Rome, seen enough films and TV series and played enough roleplaying games to be able to fill in the gaps.

 

[Astromancer]

I'm very influenced by GURPS. I feel a historical suppliment should give you both the facts and the myths and let you mix to your taste. Say you want to play Elizabethan adventurers dealing with Faeries and Celtic Mythical figures. Knowing about the real (and brutal, gritty, shameful) Elizabethan wars in Ireland, can both give you a great starting point and a means to organise your setting ideas. Plus cool NPCs like Grace O'Malley!

You need a supplement to offer you the elements. The GM has to offer their own special mix!

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

I bought it even though I prefer RQ to BRP and I wasn't particularly disappointed. I'd have preferred more hard-gaming material but that's because I am a hard-gamer. I've read enough about Rome, seen enough films and TV series and played enough roleplaying games to be able to fill in the gaps.

I dont have any particular issues with historical gaming, just the way that they are often written.

Question: In the event of a fire, which would you save? Your copy of Rome or your copy of Big Rubble?

 

[RosenMcStern]

Question: In the event of a fire, which would you save? Your copy of Rome or your copy of Big Rubble?

Big Rubble is not available as PDF, so the choice is obvious.

And yes, this is a hidden suggestion for you, Mr. Meints.

 

[tarkhan bey]

I Like historical settings provided they have the option of Legendary/Mythic inclusion. For me, Solomon Kane By Pinnacle have got the balance just about right. Enough real world info to keep the setting believable and cosistent. Enough witches ,warlocks and Werewolves to satisfy the fantasy gamers.
My own party have fought the descendants of Sawney Beane in 17th C Galloway and Dumfries and are set to embark upon a semi historical tale. That of how, Conn O'neill of Clannaboy was freed from the clutches of the dastardly English by Scottish adventurers keen to begin the Scottish plantation of Eastern Ulster. Theres even a story about an Irish vampire up near Dungiven that I intend to include before sending my players off to the New World with the Baron De La War to investigate the dissappearance of the Roanoke colonists.
I think that theres room on this board for all choices and tastes. Lets stop being negative and start being positive. Rome doesn't sound like my cup O'tea but if theres a British isles expansion with loadsa Celts n'Picts n'all, I might change my mind.
I hope you guys don't mind me going a little off topic here. This months Empire magazine has several pages dedicated to the upcoming Neill Marshall movie-"Centurion". It looks pretty good, just hope its more "Dog Soldiers" than "Doomsday".

 

[RosenMcStern]

Rome doesn't sound like my cup O'tea but if theres a British isles expansion with loadsa Celts n'Picts n'all, I might change my mind.

Well, in fact the fourth scenario in Veni, Vidi, Vici is about Celts and talks about the tribes of southern England in the first century BC. The author of the scenario has plenty of materials about Celtic lands, especially Ireland, and I am currently evaluating publication.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Question: In the event of a fire, which would you save? Your copy of Rome or your copy of Big Rubble?

Big Rubble is not available as PDF, so the choice is obvious.

And yes, this is a hidden suggestion for you, Mr. Meints.

Diplomacy isnt dead! Well done! :lol:

 

[Astromancer]

Rome would make a cool setting for RuneQuest too. But it's covered in Hellenestic Greece, or the good parts would be.

 

[Astromancer]

I'm surprised Indonesia doesn't get more votes. It must be too obscure.

 

[Tal]

Rome doesn't sound like my cup O'tea but if theres a British isles expansion with loadsa Celts n'Picts n'all, I might change my mind.

Well, in fact the fourth scenario in Veni, Vidi, Vici is about Celts and talks about the tribes of southern England in the first century BC. The author of the scenario has plenty of materials about Celtic lands, especially Ireland, and I am currently evaluating publication.

I would buy any celtic material as soon as I knew the book was available. Where can we get the fourth scenario?

 

[Astromancer]

Rome doesn't sound like my cup O'tea but if theres a British isles expansion with loadsa Celts n'Picts n'all, I might change my mind.

Well, in fact the fourth scenario in Veni, Vidi, Vici is about Celts and talks about the tribes of southern England in the first century BC. The author of the scenario has plenty of materials about Celtic lands, especially Ireland, and I am currently evaluating publication.

I would buy any celtic material as soon as I knew the book was available. Where can we get the fourth scenario?

Me too! There isn't enough gaming stuff out there on the Celts! And except for the Japanese, it's worse for non-European cultures.

 

[Malakor]

Put my vote in for an Amish sourcebook