Where is the forgery skill?
- Thread starter Infojunky
- Start date
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Where is pickpocketing, lock picking, tying knots, making a fire, using a disguise, baking a cake, tuning a carburetor, being a nanny, coaching a team, editing a newspaper....
Ok, maybe a bit silly, but the point is that it is quite impossible, or at least unplayable, to have all skills and specializations incorporated into the game.
I'm not sure this is a skill that needs inclusion, but if you do, it was added in Book 6 Scoundrel. Though it's quite odd that the skill isn't used even once on any of the careers in the book!
How did a character somehow learn this at some point in their career? As far as I'm concerned, it is not a oversight because forgery, while a roguish ability, is not really one of the top 6 skills for a thief, enforcer, or pirate.
As pasuuli and other posters in other threads have suggested, the art skill could be used. This is a little problematic if you think of the forger as a rogue. No art skill in the rogue career. But perhaps a forger really is "an artist gone bad" and not a thief who somehow can paint, make statues, print fake money, reproduce a signature, or whatever? Those artist do have skills like deception, persuade, streetwise, stealth, trade (any). I wouldn't trust them!
Ok, maybe a bit silly, but the point is that it is quite impossible, or at least unplayable, to have all skills and specializations incorporated into the game.
I'm not sure this is a skill that needs inclusion, but if you do, it was added in Book 6 Scoundrel. Though it's quite odd that the skill isn't used even once on any of the careers in the book!
How did a character somehow learn this at some point in their career? As far as I'm concerned, it is not a oversight because forgery, while a roguish ability, is not really one of the top 6 skills for a thief, enforcer, or pirate.
As pasuuli and other posters in other threads have suggested, the art skill could be used. This is a little problematic if you think of the forger as a rogue. No art skill in the rogue career. But perhaps a forger really is "an artist gone bad" and not a thief who somehow can paint, make statues, print fake money, reproduce a signature, or whatever? Those artist do have skills like deception, persuade, streetwise, stealth, trade (any). I wouldn't trust them!
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
I am reminded of the show White Collar.
CosmicGamer said:
It's one of the classic Traveller skills.... Heck even more than Battledress....
CosmicGamer said:
Not for a Thief?!? Fraud is one of the most common crimes out there, and what better way to do it than with bad paper? Not to mention core tradecraft for espionage. Where would the Stainless Steel Rat be without it?
CosmicGamer said:
That might be a solution......
I was just surprised that the skill wasn't there and that it took me this long to figure it out considering my current character is a wrecker and a smuggler, both of which can benefit greatly with a little bit of bad paper....
Though looking at the CRB I think it probably would fit under the Trade Skill better than anywhere else. With it's opposing skill being Investigate.
Well, a thief is someone who takes your money, he normallyInfojunky said:
relies on stealth, a fraudster is someone who makes you gi-
ve him your money, he normally relies on social skills. Both
types of criminals can certainly find a use for forgery, but it
is not one of their required core skills, it is something they
can add to their skill set once they have learned the basics
of their professions.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
I've been using Deception for that. It covers a lot of things. Computers can be used for eForgery.Infojunky said:
Found it, page 33 of Scoundrel, but it doesn't show up in any of the careers....
Thinking of having it be a choice when Deception comes up....
Though the idea occurs that it might be best covered as Deception with other skills such as Computer being the enabler... More of a meta skill so to speak... Thanks Shawn...
Thinking of having it be a choice when Deception comes up....
Though the idea occurs that it might be best covered as Deception with other skills such as Computer being the enabler... More of a meta skill so to speak... Thanks Shawn...
alex_greene
Guest
Trade (specialisation) skills. They're not just for tailoring and catering.CosmicGamer said:
Newspaper editing is easy - a combination of Trade (journalism) and Art (journalism).
In the absence of a Larceny (specialisation) skill, Trade should cover specialisations such as Trade (pickpocket), Trade (theatrical prosthetics and disguises), Trade (locksmith) and Trade (forgery) - though Forgery could do with being a skill of its own with the specialisations of Forgery (identity theft), Forgery (documentation), Forgery (money), Forgery (art fakes) and Forgery (fake designer goods).
Also - Mechanic, Engineer with the internal combustion engines specialisation, Steward skill covering both nannying and baking a cake, Survival used for knot tying, building a fire and arranging local materials into a makeshift shelter and Leadership and Tactics (team coaching).
Moreover, at the Referee's discretion none of the above kinds of tasks may require an actual skill roll. Some of the tasks could be so mundane as to require no dice rolling, the Referee declaring that an hour or two passed coaching the team or baking that cake, with an automatic success and a well-coached team or well-baked cake to show for the characters' efforts.
And artists do go rogue. The Muse dries up, and the money made from forging others' work is just too good ... If that doesn't tickle the Referee in you, I don't know what will.
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
It was a rhetorical question but thanks for the response.alex_greene said:
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
alex_greene said:
If you're running a Forgery campaign.
Otherwise, I'd go with Art(Forgery) or Computer(Forgery) rather then invent a new skill. Or just use Deception in general if forgery is a trivial issue in a game.
It is, but even then that doesn't mean you're using computer skill per se to beat it. You can easily make a security system unassailable by design if only it weren't for the berks that have to use it on a daily basis...
Computers can beat a network by knowing how to use inherent weaknesses in communication protocols or similar to slip your own Hacker's Back Door (TM, copyright every thriller movie ever) or otherwise brute-force or finesse past the security. It always seems to be a damn sight easier in media than I suspect it actually is.
Deception gives you ways to avoid having to pass the security in the first place; 'Hacking' that resembles Phishing (please click on this link, sir) or using some way to make the target think they've been hacked when they haven't - leading them to change their security to one more accessible to you.
A commercial computer or security display, after all, only shows you what it's being told to show by the video cable plugged in the back. If happens to be something other than what you assume it is, you can make people think all sorts of things, and the network itself may be none the wiser...
You'd probably be best placed modelling this stuff with several separate tests.
For example:
Admin gets you a blank or otherwise copieable document
Trade or Art or Computers lets you produce one that appears to say what you need it to
Deception or Persuade lets you convince the guy on the desk that it's genuine and that he should enter your details onto the system.
Ultimately, it's the last check that determines if alarm bells and violence ensue, but the better you've done at the previous ones, the more trivial that is. Hence, task chain.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
Forgery skills? Really what Locarno24 said above, in the end most forgery is the use of skills for illegal ends, a good artist may have the ability to make a good fake, but he might need to make use of, say, social science archaeology to know what he is trying to create, so another opportunity for a task chain, perhaps one involving other PCs or NPC (or the need to rescue a NPC from prison so he can help you ...)
Egil
Egil
alex_greene
Guest
No, seriously, Deception is purely an interpersonal skill. It's about lying to people face to face - nothing more, and nothing less.ShawnDriscoll said:
That's how it is in the core rules.
Honestly. Would I lie to you? 0
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
alex_greene said:
In the task system that doesn't assign attributes to skills so that they can be used in a wide variety of circumstances? Yeah, sure.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Yup. Made the EDU roll to detect the incongruities between the presented forgery and reality.
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