What's the big deal about Glorantha?

[soltakss]

That said, part of the reason I never got in to Glorantha is because in all my readings (I have RQ3 Deluxe, Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars (or whatever that boxed set is called), Gods of Glorantha, and Troll Gods) Glorantha looked just like another fantasy world only more complex and with Talislanta-style "we're different from generic fantasy" tropes tossed in. Yeah, OK, dwarves and elves are different, as are trolls, and there are these dragonnewt things. Ok, there's lots of gods, and cults that support the gods, and the worshippers can call on divine interventions.

Well, Glorantha is just another fantasy setting. Also (and this is a secret, of course) it's all made up! Yep, invented and not real! I know, shocking isn't it?

How is Glorantha NOT "generic fantasy"? It's certainly not that unique -- it's got dwarves, elves, trolls, gods, and magic... just like virtually any other fantasy world in existence. It's got a bunch of cultures that appear to be modeled on historical Earth cultures. It's even got the "cute little race" a la Middle Earth's hobbits and Dragonlance's kender: ducks.

Yes, Glorantha has fantasy staples in abundance. However, those fantasy staples have well developed histories, mythologies, legends, cultures and attitudes. Gloranthan trolls are not just trolls, they have a history that makes them what they are and shapes their attitudes and actions. Similarly, all the Elder Races have their own agendas based on their histories and mythologies. This adds a richness that is lacking in many other worlds.

Glorantha has a history that is fairly well detailed for the past 1600 years or so and a pre-history that is also very well developed. This lets you understand your place in Glorantha.

Glorantha also has a very rich mythology, well detailed and fairly consistent. There are gods and goddesses that actually existed/exist in the world and shape the world. Worshippers of those deities take on some of the deities' attributes and this again colours the way they act, what they do, what magic they get and so on.

There are many different cultures described in a fair amount of detail in Glorantha. Again, this differs from many fantasy settings where there are only a few cultures. So, if you want to play a barbarian from the hills or a pleasure seeking aristocrat then you can very easily. These cultures interact in certain well-defined ways, so you can get a feel of how people should react in certain situations.

Glorantha has a well-detailed mythology and, uniquely, allows PCs to interact with the mythology, to enter the mythology and change the world or just get some cool magics and abilities. This extra level of richness is something I've not seen elsewhere.

Historically, Glorantha has had some very good scenario packs published. Supplements such as Griffin Mountain, Pavis & Big Rubble, Borderlands and Troll Pack are very good, well detailed and very easy to run and play. It also has a lot of other material as extra background. I have counted well over 120 Pavis/Prax-related scenarios in various publications, and that only covers one area of Glorantha.

I'm not trolling, I'm really not. I really just don't see what sets Glorantha apart from any of the other worlds out there, and I can't see what sets it apart from "generic fantasy".

The term "generic fantasy" is a very loose one. I see generic fantasy as having trolls that are just big, ugly monsters, elves that are long-lived forest or mountain dwellers, dwarves who live underground and mine, big stupid giants, evil orcs, bad goblins, stand-alone sorcerers, evil Dark Lords and so on.

Glorantha is different because everything has a history, everything has a culture, everything has its place.

As an illustration, what set Babylon 5 apart as a SciFi series? It had a well defined and detailed history, well defined cultures, cultural tensions and a mythology of sorts. That set it apart from generic scifi. Glorantha is similar in some ways to the Babylon 5 setting.

Most of the other settings I have played in have not been particularly detailed. Sure, there were empires and kingdoms but they were only sketches. Very few religions were detailed, non-humans were caricatures, towns were not descrbed in detail and so on. They just didn't have the same depth as Glorantha.

Now, that's not to say they couldn't or there are other settings that are just as rich and detailed as Glorantha. A Discworld setting could be very detailed, as could a Gor, Young Kingdoms or Middle Earth setting. Any setting that has a lot of description and a lot of detail could be as good a setting as Glorantha. But, those written up for fantasy roleplaying are few and far between.

But, hey, if you don't get Glorantha then fine, you don't get it. It's not that important, anyway. I know you are perhaps planning on writing another setting for the Plain Wrap supplements and that would be a fantasy setting. It could be a generic one if the setting is not well detailed and has no depth. That's fine as well. In fact, everything's fine. I'm cool and mellow!

 

[Durand Durand]

First...

On comparing Ducks and Hobbits and Kender. Ducks are not 'cute'. Being a Duck is more akin to being Jewish under Nazi, you are despisd, resented, persecuted and only a moment away from beig done away with completely. Well, maybe it's not quite that bad, but if you play a Duck you are asking for the GM to give you a really hard time. Generally only Ducks and Newtlings respect Ducks, but these are two races at the botttom of the pile as far as Glorantha goes, along with Baboons. No Respect.

On what sold me on Glorantha...

I was initially attracted to RQ by the fact I could look at a character sheet and see everything important I needed to know about the character. I played at an RPG Con may years back, before I even knew the rules. I immediately liked the pervasiveness and subtety of the magic, and the relationship between a worshiper and his gods. Later, after buying a few books, I was immediately attracted to the "human" level conflicts in the game, the intense rivalries and passions, the conflicts of point of view, of world view between the cultures.

It is likely that my conversion to Glorantha fandom was as a result of exposure to great convetions scenario writing like Kree Mountain, Lying Low and Somewhere in Sartar, where the realities of a bitter extended Guerilla war against and cccupying force are played out at the human level. Awesome. [Its no wonder these little gems sell for much more tha n I can afford].

The non-human mindsets of the Aldryami and the Mostali were great to use against my players, they were 'mostly' predictable but dangerous and violent. The almost-but-defintiesly-not-human Uz were even better. Human characters never seemed to know when the more brutal and horrific aspects of Uz culture might show. Having a Troll sit down and lunch on a dead PC shocks PCs (and players) the first time it happens, but after the fight stops, and the horror and confusion clear, they understand this is a sign of respect from an alien culture (or the Troll was hungry ).

One thing I really liked is that the PC's were often fighting for something bigger than themselves, for a task they could never complete [OTOH One local game just free'd Pavis from the Lunar yoke], and the next generation must continue the fight. I loved that good and evil were subjective, or mostly so. that the biggest conflicts in the world were between people that should have been working together to guard against greater foes (chaos).

At the time I took up RQ. It kinda blew away all the available material in my local FLGS. Now that gaming has matured a bit, and most things are vastly more accessible, there are games out there that compare, but still most fall back on the Elves as ancient, noble, haughty and wize men with pointy ears, and dwarves as materialistic workaholics. Glorantha offered something different.

I hope this goes a bit of the way to explain why I was sold on Glorantha.

DD

 

[burdock]

Take a look at the map of Prax. Look at the shape of the Eiritha hills - those hills ARE the goddess Eiritha. The Block is a shard of The Spike (a mountain of pure law) that exploded before time....you can visit the places where that gargantuan shard left deep rifts in the earth as it bounced across the surface of Prax. The Dead Place is lifeless and spiritless - it will suck away your magic. It is the place where Stormbull recieved the power of the earth to aid in his fight against the Devil (Wakboth). Now it is eternally blasted and drained.

Everything in Glorantha - the very landscape - is woven into a texture of mythology.

Playing in Glorantha isn't to adventure in a fantasy world. It is to interact with myth. The only analogy I have found with this is gaming in mythic Earth.

 

[Adept]

MRQ's 2nd Age stuff sounds interesting because it's flyers suggest a rich fantasy world you can get into quite easily. I have no intention of doing a Greg Stafford worshiping rerun of the events leading to the 3rd age. I'll run it with my players (If I get the time) and it'll go our way..

That's the spirit. I don't think the Elric style "This world is doomed!" part of the second age is something that should have been advertised. It's something for the GM to know, but the players should feel like they are on the top of the world (if EWF or Godlearners).

Also, once playing starts, everything is up for grabs. It's very boring to run the world as if it was on tracks. Just use the offiscial timeline as one example of how things could go, and let your own version shape up as things unfold.

 

[Adept]

To quoute a friend, mr. Vesa Lehtinen, on the topic.

Glorantha is not a dualistic world. It does not run on Black and White, Good vs. Evil.

Neither the Sartarites or the Lunars are objectively evil. They are human beings or their respective cultures, doing what humans do.

No D&D morality putting things into neat, childlike, lockers.

 

[iamtim]

On comparing Ducks and Hobbits and Kender.

Let's take a step back, here, folks.

I never said I wanted hobbits in Glorantha. I even went so far as to specifically state I wasn't comparing ducks and hobbits per se.

All I was saying about ducks in Glorantha is that they fill the same niche as hobbits in Middle Earth or kender on Krynn.

That's all.

 

[RMS]

On comparing Ducks and Hobbits and Kender.

I never said I wanted hobbits in Glorantha. I even went so far as to specifically state I wasn't comparing ducks and hobbits per se.

All I was saying about ducks in Glorantha is that they fill the same niche as hobbits in Middle Earth or kender on Krynn.

I think the point of a couple of these posters is that they really don't fill the same niche. The only similarity is that they're small compared to humans, but then so are trollkin. Do trollkin fit the same niche too IMO. If not, I wouldn't say ducks do. Neither is universally likeable and loveable like a hobbit, with a jolly demeaner, and 6 meals a day. Instead ducks (and trolls) have a much grimmer existence that reflects the fact that they're low on the pecking order.

 

[iamtim]

I think the point of a couple of these posters is that they really don't fill the same niche.

Oh, sure they do. They're the small, underestimated, easily-identifyable, essentially trademark race for their respective worlds.

When you hear talk of hobbits, what do you think of? I bet you think of Middle Earth, Lord of the Rings, or some Tolkienesque rip-off.

When you hear talk of kender, what do you think of? If you know it, I'll be you think of Krynn and Dragonlance.

When you hear talk of ducks, what do you think of? Odds are, you think of Glorantha (if the subject of the conversation is RPGs/fantasy) or what retired folk feed at the park (if not).

It's really not that big of a deal, either; you may not agree that they fill the same niche, and that's cool. I don't care. I'm just clarifying that my position is that they do fill the same niche, as a few posts have insinuated that I either A) want hobbits in Glorantha or B) am directly comparing hobbits, kender, and ducks; both are false and not representative of the point I was making. I don't particularly want hobbits in Glorantha, and I am quite familiar with the literal differences (both in genetic makeup, attitude, and society) between hobbits, kender, and ducks.

 

[TRose]

One thing I always liked about Gloranthra was it was not also always good versus evil in the normal sense. Take the Orlanthi versus Lunar Empire or Trolls versus Sun Domers.Although Orlanthi consider the Lunar Empire evil, and they do have the Crimson bat, the average Lunar citizins does not consider themselves evil and many are honest ,hononarable and generous. They may even think they are doing the Orlanthi a favor by bringing order and civilization to the barbarians.
Same with Trolls versus Sundomers, Sundomers consider Troll evil cause they eat people, but they turn around and eat newtlings so how do they differ from the trolls? But if you really want evil there always thanatar or tuskers.

 

[Quire]

I [...] want hobbits in Glorantha

Tim! We get the point! Stop going on about wanting hobbits in Glorantha, man!!!



- Q

 

[Quire]

I [...] particularly want hobbits in Glorantha

Oh Tim! Just STOP!



- Q

 

[iamtim]

I [...] want hobbits in Glorantha

Tim! We get the point! Stop going on about wanting hobbits in Glorantha, man!!!

That does it. MY Glorantha 2nd Age is going to have hobbits and orcs and a dark lord who makes magic rings and an uber powerful NPC wizard who pops up and saves the PCs bacon alla time and classes and levels and alignments.

 

[Quire]

That does it. MY Glorantha 2nd Age is going to have hobbits and orcs and a dark lord who makes magic rings and an uber powerful NPC wizard who pops up and saves the PCs bacon alla time and classes and levels and alignments.

LOL!

Wait...WHAT HAVE I DONE???



- Q

 

[gamesmeister]

Tim, you asked to be educated about Glorantha, and there's been several good posts attempting to do just that.

So why are you so obsessed about ducks??? :wink:

 

[B_Steele]

So why are you so obsessed about ducks???

Duck envy?

Couldn't be helped.

Bry

 

[iamtim]

I just rolled up a 3rd level chaotic neutral half-celestial dire duck death merchant (a new class from a PDF I got on RPGNow Edge); this character is t3h r0x0rz3z!!!!111!!!!1one!!!11!!1eleventy!!!1!!1!!!!!

I can't wait to take him into Glorantha. I'm going to have him take a level of wizard to cast "Find Familiar" and have a dragonnewt familiar.

*blink, blink*
*cringe*

Ok, that hurt to write.

 

[Quire]

Ok, that hurt to write.

Even reading it smarted a little.

- Q

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

"dire duck death merchant" is, however, very appropriate.

OK, in the hope of laying it to rest.

Duck = short, lives near water, reclusive, makes a good thief.

So far so Bilbo, but that's where it ends.

 

[RMS]

The irony about me "defending" ducks above is that I actually have written them out of Glorantha most of the time I've run it. (Depends on what the players want.) They get too much attention IMO for a small (numbers) race that doesn't have much affect on the world at large. There are several times as many Morocanth (who are a lot sillier in their own way) and they're in a more developed part of Glorantha, but you never hear about them. Same with baboons, and several other races.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

The irony about me "defending" ducks above is that I actually have written them out of Glorantha most of the time I've run it. (Depends on what the players want.) They get too much attention IMO for a small (numbers) race that doesn't have much affect on the world at large. There are several times as many Morocanth (who are a lot sillier in their own way) and they're in a more developed part of Glorantha, but you never hear about them. Same with baboons, and several other races.

OK, you've just gone beyond the pale.

Say what you want about ducks, but Morokanth cannot be criticised.