What to do with the Avioki

[H]

so then, the Avioki was changed for Tournament, gaining AP on it's beam, but looseing it's side and aft weapons. For armageddon it returns to it's old configuration.

Now, hearing of an 8 dice beam, makes it sound scary, but it's just a Beam, double damage, but no punch and is slow loading.

I love the Avioki, it's a fantastic looking ship, a unique design, and was supposedly one of the most powerful ships in the league.
However in SFOS, and armageddon, people would rather take the kaliva. you still get a 4Ad slow loading beam, but a 4AD Triple damage monster, with excelent range and punch indeed, I have sen it kill a Chronos in 1 shot.

so what can be done to make the avioki a potent ship? be it in an S&P article, or in preparation for 2nd Ed.

I see no problem in adding AP to the beam, and leaving all it's other weaponry as is. but some might say an 8 dice Ap beam that can CAf as a bit sick and overpowered, but then I would refer them to the centauri primus battle laser, 6 AD DD SAP... EVERY round, but the primus suffers from a weaker damage line, but this in theory would be offset by interceptors anyway. and of course the Avioki carries no fighters.

how would people fix this ship? would they fix it, does it really need it? any ideas, from small upgrades to full stat re-writes?

I just thought it might be nice to get away from our staple ships, such as sags and anything centauri, and give a league ship some much needed lovin!

 

[Locutus9956]

Im not sure, putting AP on the beam could potentially make it a bit TOO good, the tourney one was a VERY VERY nasty ship even without the other arc weapons. And even with interceptors a Primus is still ALOT easier to kill than an Avioki (and the Primus is one of the best battleships in the game at that!).

Possibly a tweak is in order but when alls said and done as you do point out you CAN just take a Kaliva if youre after more penetrative weaponry...

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Personally I continue to use the Tourney version (or did until we started playtesting the 2ed version).

Wulf

 

[H]

Personally I continue to use the Tourney version (or did until we started playtesting the 2ed version).

Wulf

ahh, so it has a new version, cool. I wasn't aware second ed was at playtest stage. PLEASE make it a ship worth respecting

 

[blackphoenix]

Id even see it just loosing the slow loading.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Id even see it just loosing the slow loading.

Nah, I LIKE the Slow-Loading, it gives it character. So far it looks good, although it's still to be playtested by us (we're making slow progress on a bigger matchup of fleets).

Wulf

 

[Wulf Corbett]

ahh, so it has a new version, cool. I wasn't aware second ed was at playtest stage. PLEASE make it a ship worth respecting

Only just starting playtest. See Matt's thread about whether we want fires in 2ed.

As far as I'm concerned, the Avioki is amongst my prime concerns, and the first draft is, if anything, a bit OVERpowered.

Wulf

 

[H]

well, I think it should be a damned fine ship, it was arguably the most powerful league ship in B5, but of course I would like it to retain balance . I know some people think the league should be weak, but the Brakiri are a financial powerhouse, and should be able to buy the best stuff, how they use it is a different question though
I like the idea of Fires but the opinion seems to be swinging against :-(

 

[Wulf Corbett]

well, I think it should be a damned fine ship, it was arguably the most powerful league ship in B5, but of course I would like it to retain balance . I know some people think the league should be weak, but the Brakiri are a financial powerhouse, and should be able to buy the best stuff, how they use it is a different question though

The current version will make a bloody mess of a Sharlin IF it beats the Stealth. The Sharlin, on the other hand, is pretty much guaranteed to make a mess of the Avioki...

I like the idea of Fires but the opinion seems to be swinging against :-(

I'm still not 100% convinced. I like the idea, and I have to admit the bookkeeping isn't as bad as I imagined, but it's going to screw a whole load of smaller ships royally, and make a fundamental change in the game.

Wulf

 

[emperorpenguin]

well, I think it should be a damned fine ship, it was arguably the most powerful league ship in B5, but of course I would like it to retain balance . I know some people think the league should be weak, but the Brakiri are a financial powerhouse, and should be able to buy the best stuff, how they use it is a different question though
I like the idea of Fires but the opinion seems to be swinging against :-(

I agree the Avioki should be strong and I've long argued for that, it is no match for a Kaliva. The tourney version is good (I say that as a Centauri player who regularly fights Brakiri, Drazi and Narn fleets)

However IMHO the League should be weaker than the big 4, otherwise they'd be the big players themselves!

 

[H]

In the show, I nver really thought the league were technologically inferior, but they had less terriatory individually than the big guns and likely smaller militaries. After all, we know the Hyach are one of the older races in the galaxy, and surely developed tech above that of Earth, mayeb even the centauri. The Abbai tech too is quite advanced, I suppose we whould be lucky they are pacifists
so individually, I have no issue with strong league ships, but the fleets should not be as complete, as is shown by the brakiri having no scout, overall poor fighters for the brakiri and abbai, Drazi sticking to one philosophy so not having a rounded fleet and so on, and I think ACTA has caught that feel. althoguhte Brivoki is a bit of a monster.... and i'm not talking about the model either!

 

[Burger]

However IMHO the League should be weaker than the big 4, otherwise they'd be the big players themselves!

That doesn't make for a fair and balanced war game, though.
If you follow that philosophy then one Shadow ship should be able to kill everything.

 

[emperorpenguin]

However IMHO the League should be weaker than the big 4, otherwise they'd be the big players themselves!

That doesn't make for a fair and balanced war game, though.
If you follow that philosophy then one Shadow ship should be able to kill everything.

I think you misunderstand me

what I mean is say you had a modern day naval game, outside of about a half dozen nations no one would have carriers or decent attack submarines

Likewise I'm of the opinion that the League would have less of the big military assets (one reason I was opposed to Armageddon level League ships)

 

[emperorpenguin]

In the show, I nver really thought the league were technologically inferior, but they had less terriatory individually than the big guns and likely smaller militaries. After all, we know the Hyach are one of the older races in the galaxy, and surely developed tech above that of Earth, mayeb even the centauri.!

Well on a tech level Sweden is probably superior to China and India but has a less powerful military, certainly no carriers, only recently added MBTs etc

I'd see the League lacking the really powerful and specialist ships

 

[Burger]

Ah when you said the league should be weaker I thought you meant the league fleet should be weaker than the big 4 fleets.

Yes their individual ships should be weaker, but made up for by numbers (ie. low priority level). Strikehawk 4tw \o/

 

[H]

Ah when you said the league should be weaker I thought you meant the league fleet should be weaker than the big 4 fleets.

Yes their individual ships should be weaker, but made up for by numbers (ie. low priority level). Strikehawk 4tw \o/

I see their ships being as good, but lacking certain ship niches, but we're all roughly on the same playing field

 

[emperorpenguin]

Ah when you said the league should be weaker I thought you meant the league fleet should be weaker than the big 4 fleets.

Yes their ships should be weaker, but made up for by numbers (ie. low priority level). Strikehawk 4tw \o/

I wasn't very clear :wink: trying to eat at the same time as typing!

Yup I agree, I'd have had no League at War level to start with (Armageddon now) just my opinion

 

[emperorpenguin]

Ah when you said the league should be weaker I thought you meant the league fleet should be weaker than the big 4 fleets.

Yes their individual ships should be weaker, but made up for by numbers (ie. low priority level). Strikehawk 4tw \o/

I see their ships being as good, but lacking certain ship niches, but we're all roughly on the same playing field

I think Matt has said that's part of the rationale behind the Drazi not having a scout

 

[H]

makes sense, same with the Brakiri.
personally, i'm not against the Abbi/Brakiri ship, one is a technologically sound race, the other has far to much money to throw at a problem!

 

[Voronesh]

On LONAW, being weaker, well the military as a whole yes.

But you get stuff like Yolu, who fought during the last shadow war (dont shoot me if its wrong, but there was some race that did). And other really old races with better tech than EA or Narn.

So individual ships can be very good, but overall the military is either small or the tech is lower.