What if Conan leaves d20 for anotehr system?

[LucaCherstich]

I want to be clear:
I have NO INFORMATION on possible changes of this system and this post IS NOT intended as an attack against any decision Mongoose will make.
But I'm curious about the possible response of customers (like me!) to a change of the system and I ask it because:

1)
In these months there is been a lot of talking about D&D 4th ed.
I remember a few months ago people at Mongoose told in this forum they had no plan to switch to D&D4. I've lost the other discussions since I had no time to spend in these forums due to my job and I have no idea whether Mongoose can legally keep on using d20.

2)
In various occasions people kept on talking about stuff like Conan Runequest. In a recent topic Mongoose revealed the possible appearance of a Conan book in the Flaming Cobra line and somebody guessed it was Conan Runequest....Maybe the guess is wrong but the possibility of a change of a system gives me creeps......why the book does not appear in the regular Conan line? And if another system appear, will it be parallel to the normal "d20" line?

P.S.
Sorry for my English but this is not my mothertongue!!

 

[LucaCherstich]

Off course I voted the "NEVER" option.
This is not because I feel that Conan 2e (modified D20) is better than Runequest or of any other system.
I like Conan modification of the d20 and I think it is the best improvement any company ever did on d20.
I tried (15 years ago) GURPS Conan but I think the actual Conan rpg (d20) is MUCH better and much more Conanesque in feeling , especially in the magic system (at least for my tastes).
Maybe Runequest (or any other system) it is better than d20 but I CANNOT try it buying more books.
Do you know why?
The reason is that I own too many Conan books (as real books or as pdfs) to leave the d20 and switch to any other system.
I know Conan books are terrific and wonderful in detail (especially those by Vincent) and background can be taken even from books not in d20...but unfortunately I need money not just for playing, and I cannot spend money on books whose statistics I will never use.
so AS A CUSTOMER I say that I will never buy any non-d20 books.
If you have the money and time to do it, it is good for you, but not for me.

 

[The King]

Funny, There was already such a d20 vs. RQ debate some times ago, but I don't think it ever was a success beyond knowing who's being pro or contra.
I am sure most of the players enjoy Conan because of the setting rather because of the rules.

 

[LucaCherstich]

Yes!
I really appreciate Conan more because of the setting than because of the rules. But I have also to face practical money problems: whether to spend money on un-necessary stuff (as Rpg books).
There are books which, even if you like the background material, are less useful if you do not use d20.
I'm speaking of Pirates Isles or Free Companies.
About 70% of the books are useless for non-d20 players.
Every book in the Hyboria's F series is for 60% useless for non-d20 players.
Even if you think about sourcebooks with more background (e.g. Across the Thunder river, Shadizar) and which are certainly my favourite ones, they become less worth the money you spend if you cannot use all those pre-made statistics for Picts, Zamorians or all those good feats.
I have not so much time to write details of every statistics of every npc so all those stat blocks in sourcebooks really save my time and the book is more worth the money I spend.
I make a clearer statement:
If they produce (for example) a sourcebook on Turan (PLEASE; DO IT!!!) and if it is written by somebody really good (VINCENT!!) I would really like to buy, and for me it is worth those £15 or £20.
I suppose that such a book (like other regional books) have not only background but also a part (1/3 of the book at least) devoted to statistics.
BUT if those statistics are not D20 and I cannot use with my current set of rules (d20) surely 1/3 of the book is useless for me.
So, this customer (which have money problems) certainly will not spend those £15 or £20.....

Another consideration: I hope Mongoose will not propose two systems to be used in parallel system (as AEG did for Rokugan until a few years ago). The Background material was fantastic but the books were not well sold since customers stopped buying books which contain useless material (the stat blocks in the other system).

 

[Azgulor]

Considering this has been hashed out not once, but twice, with Mongoose falling on the side of Conan remaining OGL (d20 OGL that is), I predict that the only likely result of this is a reignition of the Conan equivalent of an edition war. Not as bad at D&D's 3e vs 4e, but a huge waste of hot air.

By all accounts Mongoose has posted, Conan OGL serves the large majority of Conan customers and is a consistent performer of their RPG stable.

For my own stance: I ain't switching to 4e and I ain't switching away from Conan OGL. The day that Conan drops the OGL for Runequest, Traveller, or the RPG-du-jour of the day is the day my Conan purchases stop.

Conan isn't just for gaming in Hyboria for me. It's THE RPG baseline for ALL of my fantasy RPG gaming. Through the beauty of the OGL & d20 license, if I'm running a game outside of Hyboria, I have my OGL library to pick and choose what goes into that game.

For RuneQuest fans who bemoan having to buy books for systems they don't use, I understand but have little sympathy. I had to do this for 15+ years until the Conan RPG was released. But OGL & d20 sourcebooks have turned the corner on this reality for me and there's no going back. Thanks to 3rd-party publishers like Mongoose, I now can tailor my fantasy RPGing however I like without learning a new system every 18-24 months. I've got so much invested in OGL games & the odd d20-license book that my players and I have zero interest in either changing gears or supporting RPG lines for other systems just to get the 'fluff'.

Aside from the fact that Conan OGL does everything I need it to do, with a job that takes 50-60 hours/week on average, a wife, and two kids I have neither the time or finances to justify switching systems. I can justify continued purchased of the Conan OGL line.

Conan OGL might not be the be-all/end-all of gaming but no game ever will be. Conan OGL is my and my group's game of choice for the past several years and will be for many, many years to come.

Long live Conan!

 

[warzen]

I've voted for the first choice but it would be more like "I would buy far more books if they were not using d20".

W.

 

[Der Rote Baron]

I voted one, but with an exception: NO 4th Edition stupidity! I think CONAN could benefit from an easier set of rules since, especially for thjegm, D 20/ OGL games can be cumbersome. That said, I think Coanan is the best OGL-game on the market, next to M&M. It ha sthe right feel for Coanan.
I could see a "Savage Worlds of Conan"-RPG standing in my gaming shelf next to the Solomone Kane RPG, full colour, all rules and a campiagn inside ... Yep, that I can see.
The proposed "Acheronian Edition" is a little to 4thish for me. Sorry, bzut when I see Thise "roles" behind monster names (Skirmisher and whatnot) I gotta puke!
Fast and furious - yes. Runequest would be okay, but what do I win?


In hindsight I should have vote "no" .... :roll:

 

[GamerDude]

I've not noticed the other threads about Conan being done under other systems, but they don't matter this is a fair topic for discussion.

I've been enjoying showing d20 players the Conan version, describing all the different features. One of the common comments made is how MGC (mongoose conan) does things 4th ed is trying to do, but in a way that's much better.

Power points for spells keep the spell casters from being overpowering at higher levels, combat maneuvers that anyone with the pre-requisites can use (not just one or two classes), etc.

My current group tired moving to 4th ed and they aren't too crazy about it, and after taking a 2nd look at MGC they've decided they want to play it instead. (we'll be playing 4th ed using Wraith Recon on a diff day).

 

[rabindranath72]

I've voted for the first choice but it would be more like "I would buy far more books if they were not using d20".

W.

Same here. I hate wasting money on tons of stats blocks.

 

[Style]

I am sure most of the players enjoy Conan because of the setting rather because of the rules.

Count me in this group. I'm a Savage Worlds guy, but I love Mongoose's books for setting fluff.

 

[Diabolus]

I'm the other way around. I use the crunch of Conan D20 with a different (very similar) setting. I would have no use for this, unless I read the rules and found them far superior.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

I don't buy 2E stuff anyway.

 

[Brisco]

If Conan went the way of Paizo's Pathfinder, it would improve upon an already great rule system. Just as long as the magic system remains as it is. Yes, all we have for Pathfinder is the Beta release so far, but as long as Paizo doesn't roll a "1" with the non-playtest version, it should be fine.

I don't know how Conan could be released in D&D Fourth Edition without writing a whole new game.

My opinion is therefore "yes" and "no", depending.

 

[LucaCherstich]

I posted this poll because of the recent topic "Looking for Conan Artists" where Mongoose annouced the coming of a Conan product under the Flaming Cobra logo.
This is quite suspect for me, why do they not put under the normal Conan line?
What do you think about it?

 

[warzen]

What do you think about it?

Exactly what I said in the other post: it may be the MRQ version done by Vincent years ago. To prevent a potential customer confusion (you don't wan't to buy a supposed d20 book that is not using d20) and possible legal trouble (like agreement for other companies to translate the Conan line), this would be released under the indie line ie Flaming Cobra.

W.

 

[Arcadayn]

I've never used D20 for Conan. I'm pretty sure Mongoose is never going to switch to Conan, so I'll keep buying the books no matter the system.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Good little debate this, we are keeping an eye on it

As for our input, Conan is _never_ going to go 4e, and will continue in its present format for at _least_ the year and a half - we have absolutely no plans to change whatsoever.

That said. . .

Running Conan at our club this week, I noticed some of the Conan virgins having trouble with the character creation system. D20 is great if you know the rules inside out, as you can focus in on many parts of your character - but all those options are just confusing for newbies.

Not necessarily a deal breaker, but this is something we have to at least take note of. What raised the issue, however, is that we are currently working on some tweaks to the RuneQuest rules. If they turn out as good as they look (think Traveller amounts of awesome), then we are going to have to do some serious soul-searching about changing the system. After all, Conan does deserve the best.

At the end of the day, and as we have done before, we will likely leave this decision in the hands of you chaps. You'll get a chance to see what we are doing with RuneQuest, and will be able to make up your own minds as to whether Conan needs that treatment, or whether he is better off where he currently is.

All comments welcome, as always!

 

[warzen]

Running Conan at our club this week, I noticed some of the Conan virgins having trouble with the character creation system. D20 is great if you know the rules inside out, as you can focus in on many parts of your character - but all those options are just confusing for newbies.

It's not a surprise to say that d20 is a system where you need to build your character. You need to have a good knowledge of all feats, prestige classes and when the campaign is supposed to stop (no need to plan a character that will shine at level 13 if the campaign is planned for level 10 max). That's totally beginner unfriendly.

Compare that to Runequest, just to name product owned by MGP, which is really easy to start with, where there's not real bad choice you can make that are crippling your character for all his life.
Runequest is a game that allow you to create and "use" your character without having to read a lot of rule books.

I've always given priority to systems that were player-with-no-free-time friendly because in the end, if I don't have players, I'm of no use as a GM.

W.

 

[flatscan]

At the end of the day, and as we have done before, we will likely leave this decision in the hands of you chaps. You'll get a chance to see what we are doing with RuneQuest, and will be able to make up your own minds as to whether Conan needs that treatment, or whether he is better off where he currently is.

All comments welcome, as always!

Ugh, please don't change the system Conan is currently running on. I've invested hundreds of dollars in this product line, my players love the system (even the ones who hadn't played D&D since 2nd edition), and I've got a campaign running strong. I realize a change in system won't prevent me from running off the OGL books I've got, but it would be a real bummer to have new books coming out that are only good for Fluff without any usable Crunch.

 

[Ichabod]

Not to say I'm in favor of the d20 system, but, again, why is it assumed that characters are completely defined out of the gate?

Let someone play the game for a while and redo (or even finish) the character later when it becomes clearer how to achieve what one wants.

If a living campaign can allow characters to be rebuilt after three sessions, a home campaign can be forgiving to some degree. Really, an advantage of tabletop role-playing is flexibility. If just going to be a set of numbers rather than a concept, can login into a MMO.