What if Conan leaves d20 for anotehr system?

[warzen]

Scaling the opposition against the PCs is a basic concern for any game, and the fact that it is so easy in level based systems is one of the main arguments for that style.

A quick question for regular d20 DM:
do you scale the usual opposition or do you just increase the number ?

To take a better example:
do you use level 1 guard with an exceptionnal level 3 captain when your PC are low level (1-3), then increase guard to level 5 and captain to level 10 when your PCs are increasing in power (ie level 7-10)

or

do you keep the level of the town guard consistent whatever the level of your PCs ?

To make it really clear: this is a real question and not a trap, troll or whatever.

Thx,
W.

 

[Krushnak]

warzen i follow the second one. the pc's are mighty in my game and can be world shakers if they choose but the world doesnt revolve around them. i do this in any game i run.

 

[Demetrio]

I'd increase the number (and that applies to any system). In fact one of my (minor) beefs with many of the published Conan modules (eg Shadizar) is that the listed npcs are way above the guideline levels given in the main rulebook.

Major baddies get 'scaled' appropriately though (and again would be in any system).

 

[kintire]

I keep the world consistent, so guards who were 1-3 when the PCs were 1st level will still be so when they are 20th. however, they will no longer be the usual opposition!

 

[VincentDarlage]

In fact one of my (minor) beefs with many of the published Conan modules (eg Shadizar) is that the listed npcs are way above the guideline levels given in the main rulebook.

Shadizar was pretty much written before the main rulebook was published, so I just used my own guideline levels. I don't recall level guidelines being in the playtest rules, but I could have just missed it. I am not sure where those guidelines even are in the original rulebook (pre-Atlantean), so I could have easily overlooked them.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Scaling the opposition against the PCs is a basic concern for any game, and the fact that it is so easy in level based systems is one of the main arguments for that style.

A quick question for regular d20 DM:
do you scale the usual opposition or do you just increase the number ?

No. I use what is appropriate for the situation and place in the world, not what is appropriate for the PCs. 12th level people do not guard generic gates and doors, no matter what the level of the PCs.

If I scaled the opposition, what would be the point of the PCs going up in level? At some point, they should be able to plow through basic guards. Anyway, it is not a computer game, it is a world, and things have to be consistent within that world. That is a standard rule of fiction stories (while I understand that a game is not really a story, I try to follow narrative rules for writing fiction).

Main villains are usually high enough of a level to accomplish what I need them to accomplish. I usually don't worry about the level of the PCs. I have found that, given they actually attempt to plan something, a group of low-level PCs can take out high level individuals, and that low-level NPCs can take out higher level PCs if they allow themselves to be split up and/or have a poor plan.

I didn't like CRs in 3.x D&D, so I am glad Conan got rid of them.

 

[treeplanter]

Thanks Vincent you read in my mind!!!!

So that make 4ed pointless in my opinion LOL

 

[Demetrio]

I thought the idea with 4th ed was that encounters could be made up of an appropriate level but either be hordes of low level foes, one or two high level ones or a mix and it did the 'work' for you. So a horde of orcs could reasonably challenge a high level party whereas half a dozen would challenge a low level one.

 

[treeplanter]

Dunno, didn't played a ton of game but I don't think a horde of a small creature is a challenge for a high level group. Problem are the area effect wich are abundant and can kill so much foes. On the other end each "weak" minions have kind of Champion along with them.

for exemple in our last game we were helping the dwarves defending their keep against a goblin assault. With the goblin there was Bugbear and Troll tough (standart LOTR ). So in the end you're more figthing the troll/bugbears as PC and the fact it's a horde make thing a bit harder.
But in the end you really fight the troll/bugbears not goblins

 

[rabindranath72]

I keep the world consistent, so guards who were 1-3 when the PCs were 1st level will still be so when they are 20th. however, they will no longer be the usual opposition!

Same here. I take levels as an absolute indicator of proficiency. So, the usual guards are not even 1st level fighters/soldiers, but would be warriors in 3e parlance, or, better yet, unclassed characters like in AD&D (a guard would have from 1 to 8 hps, a weapon or two and nothing else).

 

[Malcadon]

I take levels as an absolute indicator of proficiency. So, the usual guards are not even 1st level fighters/soldiers, but would be warriors in 3e parlance, or, better yet, unclassed characters like in AD&D (a guard would have from 1 to 8 hps, a weapon or two and nothing else).

I never liked the whole use of such unclasses, or "0-level men" as basic solders/bandits/pirate types. I see them as a little too NERF for my taste. I would swap the 1st & 2ed level Fighter titles, so 1st level would be Warrior (to cover all types of generic grunts), and 2nd level would be Veteran (all types of battle-harden grunts). I would count 3rd level Fighters as Elite troopers (instead of Swordmaster). I always have the players start off at 3rd level to give them a fighting chance, and to allow them to start at a near heroic level (I count 4th level or higher as heroic a level). I also allow players to make use of henchmen freely - even boosting the number of henchmen they can get as they raise levels, until they can field a small army. I handle such henchmen like the extras in a Ray Harryhausen movie or redshirts from Star Trek - that is, I would kill one off to foreshadow some great danger, or to have them take the brunt of a large fight. Thats how I roll!

 

[Clovenhoof]

We had a whole thread about that topic a while back. There was no general consensus, but I prefer to think of Level 1s as 15-year old raw recruits, level 3 as trained professionals, and veterans / elite are levels 4-7 or somesuch.
My players get to start at level 3, and with much better ability scores than typical NPCs to reflect their heroic potential.
I also handle Leadership a bit differently, i.e. I calculate a "level total" out of the followers chart, and they can choose their followers any way they want. If the chart ready "200 level 1" that's worth 200 points and can be traded for 50 level 4s, for instance.

How did we get onto that topic?

 

[Spongly]

I also allow players to make use of henchmen freely - even boosting the number of henchmen they can get as they raise levels, until they can field a small army. I handle such henchmen like the extras in a Ray Harryhausen movie or redshirts from Star Trek - that is, I would kill one off to foreshadow some great danger, or to have them take the brunt of a large fight. Thats how I roll!

Savage Worlds is a great system for this style of play - it deals with large fights really well, and has some nice rules for henchmen that make it nice and easy to slot them into a game without slowing fights down to a crawl.

 

[rabindranath72]

I have started playing Dragon Warriors, and besides being a very fast system, it is also quite flavorful and "gritty", without being too much lethal, also allowing "mooks". I have not felt so excited about a new game since a very long time!
I am thinking about writing an adaptation document for Conan...

 

[Malcadon]

We had a whole thread about that topic a while back. There was no general consensus, but I prefer to think of Level 1s as 15-year old raw recruits, level 3 as trained professionals, and veterans / elite are levels 4-7 or somesuch.

I dont really remember that topic. What I was talking about was how I handle it levels in regards to the old AD&D rules. I dont have a gauge to rate NPC henchmen, as I dont play the d20 system that often, but when I do, I handle things "old-school."

How did we get onto that topic?

Who the hell knows? After 35 or so pages of mass-debating (or something like that :wink, I dont think anyone really remembers the original topic!

 

[Clovenhoof]

I dont really remember that topic.

Just in case you want to peek, I looked it up, actually there have been two threads:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38200

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28004

 

[Sutek]

...getting a little off toppic after 500+ posts, people....

:roll:

Nice to see Vincent pop his head in after so much rigamarole. I guess that goes to show: The Mongoose heirarchy pays attention even in the darkest of threads.