What dyou prefer?

[Balance]

Come on, Crusade did suck though. I mean the story was weak, and the characters were shallow.

I watched several of the aired episodes of Crusade and was not impressed.
I finally purchased the DVD set, and was much more impressed.
The Bad:

• Poor CGI, especially when used for 'virtual sets.'
  Some character combos just don't "work" as well as you might hope. The Dr. Smith-esque IPX scientist and nearly everyone, unfortunately.
  A lot of plots seem to cover territory Star Trek covered in the Original Series.

The Good:

• The ship designs and props make it 'feel' like Babylon 5.
  Some of the "recycled ST:TOS" are at least the B5 take on it. (There's one where the concept of what ST would call the 'prime directive' is discussed and promptly shattered by an annoyed Captain Gideon)
  Some of the characters have some neat story-lines starting, like Dureena and Galen's "mentor" relationship.
  Lochley actually seems to fit here, unlike her role as something of a fifth wheel on B5.

The Ugly:

• We've been told that the latter episodes of the series would've tipped it on it's head as the cure was found, but politics and similar make the Excalibur and crew somehow outlaws from their home.

I was thinking about this just recently and have really thought that the best hope for a follow-up series would be something set in the era when Centauri prime is freeing itself from the Drakh. It's enough down the road to allow for some new 'toys' without as much of a jarring change, it's a powerful political setup, and it could potentially involve a range of heroes and villains, both Centauria and other races.

But back to BSG, I've heard so many comments about it I've just added the miniseries and first season to my NetFlix queue.

 

[firekite]

no reaverman , i would probably suffer it quite well

 

[B5Temple]

...and Katee Sackhoff is 100X better than Dirk "can't act way out of wet paper bag" Benedict

Nobody talks about the real Starbuck and gets away with it!!!

SMACK!!!

 

[frobisher]

I like the new one, the pegasus episode is great, I am however wishing someone would kill baltar, his hallucinating of six is really really beggining to naff me off.

What, and lose out on the most devious man in the fleet..?

Baltar is probably the best "not hero" ever.

oh, and STARBUCK SHOULD BE A MAN!!!!!!

Well the character named Starbuck was, I prefer the woman with the callsign of Starbuck though...

jeez, and how could they kill Jolly!

Very, very quickly and in the background as is right and proper

 

[Karhedron]

Baltar is probably the best "not hero" ever.

And yet he is utterly believable and even almost sympathetic.

Almost!

I think the new BSG is great, it takes real skill to come up with such believably flawed characters. Londo and G'Kar were always two of fav B5 characters for just that reason. They both did some pretty low things (especially Londo) but you never had trouble understanding why.

 

[Silvereye]

New Glactica has a lot going for it. I like the way things are developing and am just waiting for season 2 to come out on DVD so I can buy it then watch it.

There is so much more to the characters in the new one, and the getting away from the '70s "all male" stereotype cast has certainly helped, as surprisingly did the 'old-tech' approach of bullets and nukes over lasers, and the hand cam follows around. It all seems to make it so much more gritty and 'believable'. That and the fact that the colonial warriors are slowly being whittled away by the cylons, and seem to be slowly grating on each others nerves, no huggy happy family here. The female Starbuck and Boomer have a lot more to them then womanising-gambler-hotshot (though the new starbuck seems to like these traits too, but adds more) and token black guy and I also prefer Richard Hatch as Tom Zarek to the original Apollo, a much more interesting character.

As a wierd aside, watch your way though B5 (no doubt a hard task), and concentrate on G'Kar as the main character - this is easier in the later episodes. Basically his story can be distilled into a typical Heroes Journey, with all the others just providing allies and antagonists to his story. EA civil war, last great shadow war, all background fluff in G'Kars journey.

 

[emperorpenguin]

As a wierd aside, watch your way though B5 (no doubt a hard task), and concentrate on G'Kar as the main character - this is easier in the later episodes. Basically his story can be distilled into a typical Heroes Journey, with all the others just providing allies and antagonists to his story. EA civil war, last great shadow war, all background fluff in G'Kars journey.

Funnily enough I've heard B5 described as Londo Mollari's story in those terms too
Remember B5's story begins with Londo "I was there in the beginning..at the dawn of the third age of mankind..." :wink:

 

[deathlynx]

Come on, Crusade did suck though. I mean the story was weak, and the characters were shallow.

If you only saw the first 12 episodes of B5 you may have said the same thing though. Having read the two unproduced scripts that made it inline a few years back, I think if Crusade had made it to the first season finale it would have found it's voice and an audience.

I agree...First, yes I have seen all of B5, start to finish...but in fact I only have the first 12 episodes of B5 on tape (started collecting when still on VHS, just before they dissapeared, can't afford the DVD sets)...Man some of my least favorite (read I hate 'em) episodes of all B5 are on those tapes...I'm not saying they don't have their moments, I'm not even saying some of them aren't important to the plot way down the line...but the episodes themselves are just bad...I mean the cosmic egg? Bio-armor goes berserk?

Anyway to the topic at hand...I love the new BSG...I won't mention anything specific as I've already been reamed out in the proposed Mongoose forum for it...
I love the characters and writing but I really love the attention to detail in the cinimatography...I just love the "hand-held-cam" in space...
the show has quickly caught up to B5 as my favorite show of all time...

Hasn't surpassed it yet...YET...

 

[B5Temple]

There is so much more to the characters in the new one, and the getting away from the '70s "all male" stereotype cast has certainly helped...

Yeah, but they include too many sex scenes just to draw ratings. Everyone is a horndog on the new show. Most of the characters are heavily flawed and very depressing to watch. It makes you want to take half a white valium after the credits role. Your 70's "all male sterotype" is completely WRONG. Athena and Sheeba were great female characters and they were pilots.

as surprisingly did the 'old-tech' approach of bullets and nukes over lasers, and the hand cam follows around. It all seems to make it so much more gritty and 'believable'.

The old tech approach is interesting, but not pragmatic. Those ballistic rounds have got to go somewhere when they miss. There's probably so much friendly fire that it's not even funny...especially in the flak cloud around the Galactica. Both series used nukes (or similar MWDs). The hand cam was annoying as hell in the mini-series, but they seemed to have "calmed" it down a little bit. I think the novelty will wear off eventually.

The female Starbuck and Boomer have a lot more to them then womanising-gambler-hotshot (though the new starbuck seems to like these traits too, but adds more) and token black guy and I also prefer Richard Hatch as Tom Zarek to the original Apollo, a much more interesting character.

I don't find Starbuck attractive or interesting. She's just a b____ and the attitude is quite annoying. I didn't buy the whole "artist" aspect of her characters at all. It felt forced. I'd much rather have the old Starbuck with his gambling, womanizing, and kick butt piloting skills. He added some humor to the show and quite frankly that is what's missing from the new show. Boomer is okay and I do like her character quite a bit. Richard Hatch will always be Apollo to me. Tom Zarek is just plain ol' boring.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Yeah, but they include too many sex scenes just to draw ratings. Everyone is a horndog on the new show. Most of the characters are heavily flawed and very depressing to watch. It makes you want to take half a white valium after the credits role. Your 70's "all male sterotype" is completely WRONG. Athena and Sheeba were great female characters and they were pilots..

Nothing wrong with sex scenes involving Grace Park!
BTW Lowly Uhlan put her back on as your avatar!

The characters are flawed and you see that as a negative?! :roll: Yeah because everyone should be happy campers with no problems "our homeworlds just got destroyed but we're not depressed at all!"

Athena and Sheeba who? Such great characters, I've forgotten them! And who wants to be named after cat food? :lol:

Richard Hatch will always be Apollo to me. Tom Zarek is just plain ol' boring.

His Apollo was boring, none of the insecurities and conflicts of Jamie Bamber's version. Tom Zarek is actually quite a good character, very menacing in a friendly way, quite reminiscent of Morden

The old tech approach is interesting, but not pragmatic. Those ballistic rounds have got to go somewhere when they miss. There's probably so much friendly fire that it's not even funny...especially in the flak cloud around the Galactica..

And what about all those laser blasts in the original? hell the cylons were incapable of shooting straight! and it's mentioned in the new show that vipers stay out of Galactica's zone of fire because of the huge amount of defensive fire.

 

[Silvereye]

Thanks for the answers EP, kind of agree them.

Yeah, but they include too many sex scenes just to draw ratings. Everyone is a horndog on the new show. Most of the characters are heavily flawed and very depressing to watch. It makes you want to take half a white valium after the credits role. Your 70's "all male sterotype" is completely WRONG. Athena and Sheeba were great female characters and they were pilots.

I don't know about derpessing, its not as if they have anything to be cheery about, homeworlds destroyed, many friends dead, running away to no-where, on the sole hope that Earth exists, and the fleet is crawling with the cylon infiltraitors. Heck, to top it off, the President has a terminal cancer. I like it because you can see the qualities and the faults of the characters, it makes them more real, because they are more beleivable. No crystal towers here.

As for the Ladies, the only one I can vaguely remember is Adama's daughter (Athena I think?) And a couple of the others that Starbuck chased / was tormented by - Casseopia was one.

The old tech approach is interesting, but not pragmatic. Those ballistic rounds have got to go somewhere when they miss. There's probably so much friendly fire that it's not even funny...especially in the flak cloud around the Galactica. Both series used nukes (or similar MWDs). The hand cam was annoying as hell in the mini-series, but they seemed to have "calmed" it down a little bit. I think the novelty will wear off eventually.

I think a viper gets shredded by the flack screen in one of the episodes when it gets to close to it. Cannot remember which. As EP said, the Viper pilots are repeatedly warned where the flak screens will be. I think the bullets and missiles approach is a good touch away from the 'lasers' of most Space Opera sci-fi.

I don't find Starbuck attractive or interesting. She's just a b____ and the attitude is quite annoying. I didn't buy the whole "artist" aspect of her characters at all. It felt forced. I'd much rather have the old Starbuck with his gambling, womanizing, and kick butt piloting skills. He added some humor to the show and quite frankly that is what's missing from the new show. Boomer is okay and I do like her character quite a bit. Richard Hatch will always be Apollo to me. Tom Zarek is just plain ol' boring.

Your call, I can not tell you who to like/dislike. Personally I think she's a good, strong character, cut from the Ripley mould. Though I do not know what you mean by the artist, unless its season 2 thing - which I have not seen (UK, no Sky TV, awaiting the DVDs). Old Starbuck had his moments, but the new Starbuck has so many more. Waiting to see what will happen to Boomer after the end of Season 1. I think Tom Hatch's caracters are more like comparing Walter Keonig as Chekov to Bester. Somehow the 'bad guy' is much the more interesting character of the two. It also seems that the lines and morals between right/wrong are less clear cut in the newer series - the Olympic Carrier is one example.

 

[LtLeonJonson]

okay love the new series, but nothing in it beats B5 just yet.

The new Starbuck/Apollo combo is amazing, remember in one of the last eps of series 1 where Apollo is thinking he should fly like starbuck and does it to wipe out the cylon base?

The fact people aren't gettign alone makes the series better, i mean in there situation will you be on the best terms with everyone around you, hell no.

The guns/nukes is a good change from the norm of lasers etc, but the ammo issue i think is not really covered, yes they hit an old supply base, i mean the USS Missori(sp) was firing shells made in WW2 during Vietnam, so it is plausable that there is the ammo, butships are only so big and unless everyship in the fleet is carrying some ammo for the Galactica it is gonna run out real soon.

 

[prelude_to_war]

I love B5 for what it is - but it did premiere 13 years ago. It'd be neat to see some battle scenes redone with current FX technology.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Without trying to spoil stuff, a lot of the questions of supplies are addressed in the second half of series 2

 

[l33tpenguin]

I love B5 for what it is - but it did premiere 13 years ago. It'd be neat to see some battle scenes redone with current FX technology.

Don't get me wrong, I love Babylon 5, think it is the pinical in sci-fi to date. I wish there was a way to go back and have it redone, keeping the content intact but improving the sets and visuals. Give the show a budget that it is worthy of. A lot of the greatness of Babylon 5, I think, came about from its limitations, they had to do more with what they were given and thus a superiour product was produced. But, with that, I would like to see what it would be like enhanced, etc.

 

[Balance]

Don't get me wrong, I love Babylon 5, think it is the pinical in sci-fi to date. I wish there was a way to go back and have it redone, keeping the content intact but improving the sets and visuals. Give the show a budget that it is worthy of. A lot of the greatness of Babylon 5, I think, came about from its limitations, they had to do more with what they were given and thus a superiour product was produced. But, with that, I would like to see what it would be like enhanced, etc.

To be honest... I wouldn't. It'd end up being different somehow.

The CGI did not make the battle scenes of B5 great (although it certainly helped). It was the build up that made us feel the impact of the crew of the Churchill's sacrifice a moving movement, not the CGI details.

Now, a new project which has the time to resurrect and create new models for the older designs to help craft the world... That would be a cool.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Don't get me wrong, I love Babylon 5, think it is the pinical in sci-fi to date. I wish there was a way to go back and have it redone, keeping the content intact but improving the sets and visuals. Give the show a budget that it is worthy of. A lot of the greatness of Babylon 5, I think, came about from its limitations, they had to do more with what they were given and thus a superiour product was produced. But, with that, I would like to see what it would be like enhanced, etc.

To be honest... I wouldn't. It'd end up being different somehow.

The CGI did not make the battle scenes of B5 great (although it certainly helped). It was the build up that made us feel the impact of the crew of the Churchill's sacrifice a moving movement, not the CGI details.

Now, a new project which has the time to resurrect and create new models for the older designs to help craft the world... That would be a cool.

Thats exactly why I would like to see it done now. We already have all the elements that made things great. I would like to see polish done is all, now, after the fact. We have the lines that were delivered wonderfully, the dramatic presentations that moved us. I would like to see what it would be like with a pretty wrapper is all.
And season one could really use new CGI I didn't care for the cgi in season one at all. waaaay to slow.

 

[Silvereye]

Yes, but we all have George Lucas' example of new tech/effects tweaking and tucking in Star Wars to go by.

It might not be a pretty sight.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Yes, but we all have George Lucas' example of new tech/effects tweaking and tucking in Star Wars to go by.

It might not be a pretty sight.

ugh... you just gave me memories that hurt my brain.

I give JMS more credit than that. He hasn't become rich and famous and overly jaded by his creation to the point where he believes himself a god to which his followers will swallow the drivel that flows forth from him as divine.
God I hate the remakes of SW. Not to mention the prequels. Those never happened in my world

 

[lastbesthope]

Yes, but we all have George Lucas' example of new tech/effects tweaking and tucking in Star Wars to go by.

It might not be a pretty sight.

Yup, there are now 3 different versions of Eps IV-VI, and the best is the original.

Anything after 1983 was a bad idea.

LBH