What do you like about OGL, Conan, & REH's writing?

[zozotroll]

The multiple encounter.

This is something everybody used where I learned to RP, but since Uncle Sam started moving me around to differnet sates and countrys, i have found almost no one that does it. The idea is that there is a large number of opponents in a small area, but either because it is dark, of heavy forest or swampy, they dont see each other. Then, when the first group hits the PCs, the noise of the fight starts drawing the rest in.

Remeber that the bad guys are not allied, so if they come in wrong, or a clever PC diverts them, they can certainly wind up fighting each other.

Be warned, this can sprawl into a huge complex fight. However, the look on the faces of tha party, particularly a mage that has blown through his whole spell list quickly is outstanding. I even had one exclaim, thats more than 4 encounters in one day.

 

[zozotroll]

Monster Hunters. Thsi was actualy done to me as a DM once, so i stole the idea. The PCs went to an area that was noted for haveing a large number of things to fight. They slept through the afternoon, and then just as it got dark, they built a huge fire, roasted a pig, killed a cow and hung it up to drain, and generaly did everything they could think of to attract monsters. Then they settled in to wait for them to arive, instead of having to chase after them.

I use this as a group to get the PCs to join them, only after the fighting starts, it quickly becomes clear that the NPC monster hunters are really not up to the task. Bit of a shock to realize they are going to have to carry the load in the middle of a feeding frenzy.

 

[zozotroll]

Purple people eater.

More suited to an epic game than Conan, but as long as I am listing them may as well include it.

This is one the PCs win by loseing. In the middle of a drinking party they all pass out. when they come to, they are are on a hill with a sacred alter, or spot of goodness or what ever fits the world. They have a feeling they should defend it.

Then a series of monsters starts showing up. In fact the monsters keep coming until the players are wiped out, unless they run. Of course running is not what they are supposed to do. If they get killed, then they all wake up with lots of XP or some other well earned rewards. if they bug out they get squat.

Tends to have some POed PCs in the middle of it, but they get better by the end.

 

[Supplement Four]

SPOILER!

SPOILER!

SPOILER!



I just finished The Hand of Nergal. It's a fantastic example of the bad guy getting the main, heroic character, and an NPC saving the day instead of the player's main character!

Didn't see that coming. Nice change of pace. Thought Conan would pull it out in the end. He didn't. 1st level NPC did.

 

[flatscan]

I just finished The Hand of Nergal. It's a fantastic example of the bad guy getting the main, heroic character, and an NPC saving the day instead of the player's main character!

You're talking of the pastiche I believe. The REH fragment is only a couple pages and doesn't get that far into the story. I've not read the pastiche, and in fact have no books with it in it. Could you sum up de Camp's take on it? I believe it had his usual Conan only wins with the help of others or deus ex machina than he and Lin Carter liked so much. Dark Horse recently did their take on the 3 page fragment REH wrote that was decent. Noble intrigue, evil wizard, princess needing saving. It hit most of the right notes. Shame the artwork was horrible and Tim Truman is no Robert E Howard.

 

[Supplement Four]

You're talking of the pastiche I believe. The REH fragment is only a couple pages and doesn't get that far into the story. I've not read the pastiche, and in fact have no books with it in it. Could you sum up de Camp's take on it?

Actually, Lin Carter finished Howard's fragment. I like de Camp's take on Conan, but he wasn't the one who finished this story.

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

Conan is a mercenary signed on with Turan's army. His bow marksmanship and horsemanship are indifferent, so Conan is relegated as a scrub--just one of the masses in the fight.

King Yildz has sent a force several thousand strong to Yaralet, a city that sits on the turanian steppe in the foothills of Zamora. The satrap of Yaralet, Munthassem Khan, is in open rebellion with Turan.

The story begins at the close of the battle. Conan's horse (that he received from Murilo, in the story Rogues in the House, falls victim in a rain of arrows. Conan has little. He's dressed in a ragged loin cloth and high strapped sandals only. The only thing of value he now owns, after the death of his horse, is the ancient broadsword he wields (that taken from The Thing in the Crypt).

The Turanians are winning the day when, from the sky, devil-shadow apparitions swoop over the battlefield and kill all, soldier of Turan and insurgent alike.

Conan watches as one of these shadow-things scoops up the Turanian commander then drops him from an unsurvivable height.

Both sides of the battle begin to route.

Conan faces one just after, but his sword passes through the phantom without seemingly damaging the thing. His sword gone, he reaches for his dagger, but in his weakened state pull the pouch from his waist that contains a curious amulet he had found the day before.

At the sight of this amulet, the demon-phantom is frightened away, and Conan, drained from the fight, drops where he stands.



He awakes on the field of dead. He hopes to rob the fallen for equipment or wealth, but he is too late. The buggers from Yaralet have already cleaned the field. He does find a new horse, though, the great black steed the Turanian general rode.

And, Conan finds girl, collapsed by the side of the lazy river Nezvaya. He's puzzled at this girl. What is she doing on the battlefield.

He wakes her and realizes she's in sad shape. She says she's a slave from the city, Yaralet, and that she knows his name is Conan. She was sent to find him.

Now more puzzled, Conan follows her into Yaralet, taking the sewers below the streets to avoid the guards. He is led to the home of her master, a man named Atalis.

Atalis, it turns out, is a conspirator. He and Prince Than have motives to unseat Munthassem Khan, but the Khan has become all powerful.

The story is that Munthassem, once loyal to Yildz, had interest in all things old. A caravan bearing an artifact that was old before Atlantis became a ruling city found its way into the Khan's possesion. This was the Hand of Nergal, a rod, ending in a demon claw, gripping a mysterious looking gem.

In truth, the Hand of Nergal possesses Munthassem, and the man is controled my a mysterious being--a demon--from a time long forgotten.

Atalis is a seer. In his crystal, he sometimes sees the future and places distant. He saw Conan pick up the amulet the barbarian had found the previous day, and he recognized it as the Heart of Tammuz. When the battle formed just outside the city, Atalis sent his servant, the beautful brythunian Hildico to fetch the cimmerian back to Atalis, for with the Heart of Tammuz had picked its champion. Tammuz and Nergal are old rivals from a time before recorded history.

Conan follows Atalis and Prince Tam through the sewers under the city to enter the Khan's stronghold. They find the throne room and the Khan, asleep, he Hand of Nergal clutched in his hand.

But, the Khan isn't really asleep. He works his magic, immobilizing all three insurrectionists.

Conan has lost.

And, it is here the slave Hildico appears from the sewer great, moves to Conan's limp form. Retrieving the amulet, she hurls it to smash into the Khan's forehead. He goes down. The amulet comes to rest on one side of Munthassem. The Hand falls to the floor on the other side.

As Conan regains consciousness but watches as two enemies, the shadow-selves of Tammuz and Nergal, blast at each other over the throne.

In the end, it is Tammuz that wins. The Heart is stronger than the Hand.

The story concludes with Prince Tam becoming Khan (assuming he sends reaffirms Yaralet's support of King Yildz in Aghrapur.

Conan leaves Yaralet to return to Turan, the general's black steed between his legs, a purse of gold on his waist, and the young Brythunian Hildico, clutching his sides, behind him.

 

[kintire]

That's a good summary of the story, and explains well how completely un-Conan it is. The hero, "Conan" achieves nothing for himself, but is the pawn of cosmic forces and little more than a bystander. Its not a bad tale in and of itself, but it misses being a Conan tale completely.

 

[Strom]

I agree kintire - not even close to Howard.

And the fragment is exactly that - hardly a half of a page. Not much to go on - but still more compelling then Carter's effort.

 

[Supplement Four]

I disagree. While I do think Howard's work is the best, I recognize that others have written some good and some great Conan stories. I don't think the story is great by any means, but I liked it.

In fact, I enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed reading Howard's The God in the Bowl.

If I had to rate the two, I'd put Howard's story a hair ahead of Nergal because of the way, in just a paragraph, Howard made the snake's head extremely creepy. I had hair rising on my arm.

Contrast this with Carter's description of the good vs evil fight between gods/beings/angels and demons/whatever they are. That felt pretty "standard" and by-the-book.

So, yeah, Howard's writing wins.

But, that's not to discount Carter's story. There's lots of good stuff in there, especially the opening battle scene where the shadow demons fly in and take the field, plucking off soldiers of both sides. Grabbing the commander from his horse and dropping him from up high was unexpected and exciting.

The Hand of Nergal is a good story. It's a short, short story, like many of them. But, it certainly doesn't stink like some of the stuff written by Rolan Green or Steve Perry.

Some of you are purists and only like Howard's work? Well, that's fine. Just realize that there are Conan fans out there who disagree and find enjoyment in Conan stories written by authors other than Howard.

I do like the work of Lin Carter, L. Sprague de Camp, Robert Jordan, and John Maddox Roberts (and a few others).

 

[Supplement Four]

That's a good summary of the story, and explains well how completely un-Conan it is. The hero, "Conan" achieves nothing for himself, but is the pawn of cosmic forces and little more than a bystander. Its not a bad tale in and of itself, but it misses being a Conan tale completely.

My point in posting it was that its refreshing that Conan didn't save the day. He was trapped by the power of Nergal as weilded by the Khan, just like the others. It's the NPC, Hildico, the young Brythunian chickee-poo, who grabs Conan's amulet and hums it at the Khan, starting the titantic fight between good and evil.

I thought the story was pretty cool in two ways: First (and I'm not sure if this came across well in my synopsis above), Conan is set-up to be "destined" to be where he is at that particular time.

He found the Heart of Tammuz the day before the story starts.

The girl, Hildico, is sent to the battlefield to find him--her master, Atalis, has forseen in his crystal that it is Conan the Heart has chosen to find it.

When Conan meets Atalis, the writing gives the reader that Conan has a destiny to be involved with things like this. He is a slayer of demons, will be a king of kings. His life is destined to be GREAT!


Second, and what's cool about the story, is that, after all that build up, it's not this big hero with a destiny that saves the day. It's Hildico, the little half naked slave girl.



While Conan has a destiny, in this story, his destiny was to be the carrier, only. He was the one destined to find the amulet and bring it to Hildico so that she could save the day.


I found that a pretty refreshing twist on a typical Conan tale and one of the reasons I like the story.





EDIT: BTW, Carter does copy Howard's style a bit, at least in his story structure. In Nergal, Conan brushes by events that could form the basis of an entire novel--the Khan of Yaralet changing from "good" to "bad" after his discovery of the Hand; the thieves and whores afraid to go out at night because of what now walks the city streets after dusk; the tension and eventual insurrection against Turan. Conan is but a small part in these events--a small part that triggers a massive ending to the events. He's the element that comes out of nowhere.

Howard uses this story approach often. I just read The God in the Bowl, and the exact same approach was used. There's a whole story suggested there about Thoth-Amon vs. Kalanthes, but those characters do not even appear in the story. They are just mentioned. Conan interferes with Thoth-Amon's plan before Conan really knows of the Stygian mage. He's just the element that comes out of nowhere that foils the plan.

It's like Conan brushes up against other people's stories and wreaks havoc the short time he's there.

Carter sure used this approach in writing The Hand of Nergal, and I'm sure he did it to emulate a Howard story.

 

[flatscan]

Thanks for the summary Supplement. Carter's take on that fragment is not my stein of ale, but to each their own.

It does remind me of another thing I really enjoy about REHs writings. Howard's Conan always made his own solution to whatever problem he was faced with. Sure he had help from others, Belit, Valeria, Zelata, etc., but Howard's Cimmerian was always the one driving the story. He might get lucky with avoiding a particularly lethal strike, but REH never used deus ex machina to explain how Conan got out of the climax of a story. I treat the PCs in my game the same way. They may get help from nPeeps from time to time, but an nPeep will never solve the problem for the PCs, nor will events just work out in the PCs favor. It is my belief that this style of play keeps the PCs involved and they know, the only way they're going to get through a scenario is by their own steel, resources, and wits.

 

[Demetrio]

I completely agree, Flatscan, i think the pastiche writers miss the point entirely when they make Conan an auxiliary or virtual bystander as they sometimes do.

 

[Supplement Four]

I just finished what is probably the best non-Howard short story I've read: The City of Skulls by Lin Carter and L. Sprague de Camp.

I loved every page of it.

I love this line from it, too. Conan and Juma are stuck in an overcrowded hole in the ground, rated with iron bars, the only entrance/exit in the roof. Days Conan and his black friend were stuck there, with other slaves awaiting the day of parade and sale.

Here's the line I love: The days dragged slowly past, as crippled snakes drag their tails painfully through the dust.

Like Howard, one line says so much. That one sentence, if you understand the context, tells you more than a paragraph can about what the two of them went through, waiting there in that overcrowded hole.

Good story, through and through.

 

[Supplement Four]

Theres things going on in Moorcocks stories. When Howard mentions a sword, you know he's talking about a sword. You know where you are with him. In Moorcocks stuff, theres a rudimentary kind of symbolism going on. Chocolate and vanilla, it depends on what you want, is all I meant.

Prince, you'll get a kick out of this.

I'm a reluctant comics reader. That is, I enjoyed comics when I was kid through, oh, about middle school. Comics dropped off my radar after 6th grade or so.

Of course, being a gamer, I'm around people who do, indeed, like comics. In fact, some are addicted to them. I've got some who play in my group.

I've tried, from time to time, to "get into" comics, but they're just not my style. I get so much more out of a novel or short story than I do a comic.

Well, that was until recently. I finally found a comic that I really enjoy reading: the reprints of Savage Sword of Conan.

Great stuff, that. Very enjoyable. They're more "adult" than your average, everyday comic, and I find that they deliver an "atmosphere" all their own.

I find that SSoC, though, is mostly (so far) comic adaptations of the short stories both by Howard and other authors. I want to read the prose version first, so recently, I found myself waiting to read some of the SSoC's I've bought (I bought all the compilations published) until I've read the prose short stories.

Well...

I learned that the Marvel run, while not as "adult" and having a different atmosphere than SSoC, was mostly NEW adventures for Conan, sprinkled with some adapated tales of Howard's works.

So, yeah, I bought the first six compilations.

What I was told was correct. They are, indeed, mostly new stories about Conan. I like that. The Marvel stuff isn't as good as SSoC, but it's still Conan. Some of the Marvel stories were also later published in SSoC.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that I was flipping through the Marvel compliation tonight, when the title of a story caught my eye....

In compiliation 3 of the Chronicles of Conan, there is a story called The Sword Called Stormbringer, followed by a story called The Green Empress of Melnibone.

Huh?

Yep. It's there.

Michael Moorcock is credited with having plotted the two stories. I haven't read them yet, but, obviously, they're adaptation-Conanizations of two of the Elric stories.

Wow.

Interesting.

Hey, I wanted something new...

 

[VincentDarlage]

What I was told was correct. They are, indeed, mostly new stories about Conan. I like that. The Marvel stuff isn't as good as SSoC, but it's still Conan. Some of the Marvel stories were also later published in SSoC.

Savage Sword of Conan was also published by Marvel originally. Conan the Barbarian was Marvel's colour comic, bound by the Comics Code, and Savage Sword of Conan was Marvel's b/w magazine which did not adhere to the Comics Code. But both were originally published by Marvel.

In compiliation 3 of the Chronicles of Conan, there is a story called The Sword Called Stormbringer, followed by a story called The Green Empress of Melnibone.

Michael Moorcock is credited with having plotted the two stories. I haven't read them yet, but, obviously, they're adaptation-Conanizations of two of the Elric stories.

That two-part story is not an adaptation of Elric. It was plotted by Moorcock (and Cawthorn, Moorcock's friend) and written by Thomas as a new adventure for them both.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Theres things going on in Moorcocks stories. When Howard mentions a sword, you know he's talking about a sword. You know where you are with him. In Moorcocks stuff, theres a rudimentary kind of symbolism going on. Chocolate and vanilla, it depends on what you want, is all I meant.

Prince, you'll get a kick out of this.

I'm a reluctant comics reader. That is, I enjoyed comics when I was kid through, oh, about middle school. Comics dropped off my radar after 6th grade or so.

Of course, being a gamer, I'm around people who do, indeed, like comics. In fact, some are addicted to them. I've got some who play in my group.

I've tried, from time to time, to "get into" comics, but they're just not my style. I get so much more out of a novel or short story than I do a comic.

Well, that was until recently. I finally found a comic that I really enjoy reading: the reprints of Savage Sword of Conan.

Great stuff, that. Very enjoyable. They're more "adult" than your average, everyday comic, and I find that they deliver an "atmosphere" all their own.

I find that SSoC, though, is mostly (so far) comic adaptations of the short stories both by Howard and other authors. I want to read the prose version first, so recently, I found myself waiting to read some of the SSoC's I've bought (I bought all the compilations published) until I've read the prose short stories.

Well...

I learned that the Marvel run, while not as "adult" and having a different atmosphere than SSoC, was mostly NEW adventures for Conan, sprinkled with some adapated tales of Howard's works.

So, yeah, I bought the first six compilations.

What I was told was correct. They are, indeed, mostly new stories about Conan. I like that. The Marvel stuff isn't as good as SSoC, but it's still Conan. Some of the Marvel stories were also later published in SSoC.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that I was flipping through the Marvel compliation tonight, when the title of a story caught my eye....

In compiliation 3 of the Chronicles of Conan, there is a story called The Sword Called Stormbringer, followed by a story called The Green Empress of Melnibone.

Huh?

Yep. It's there.

Michael Moorcock is credited with having plotted the two stories. I haven't read them yet, but, obviously, they're adaptation-Conanizations of two of the Elric stories.

Wow.

Interesting.

Hey, I wanted something new...

Interesting. I knew Elric originally met Conan sometime around Conan issue 50 - 70 or something, (or was it earlier?), though I never actually got to read those early colour Conans. My exposure to Conan was, in fact, issue #1 of the Savage Sword of Conan, (US edition), from there, it was the Sphere Conan collections I read avidly. I managed to pick up, (because my parents were often visiting the States at the time), those big colour editions that Marvel did of the early normal-sized comic editions, so I first saw those Barry Smith drawings at twice the size! That pic of the floating sorceror just thrilled me.

The first Savage Sword of Conan, I think was Black Colosus (someone can correct me?). I confess, it blew my young mind. I think the drawing was by John Buscema, not my favourite artist, but Id never seen anything like it before, the black pen and ink stuff, that I copied in my drawing pad every night.

I didnt differentiate between authors initially, when I read the Sphere collections, so I thought they were all by the same guy. I bought up those books by the armful. I tried to start reading them in order, Thing in the Crypt, Tower of the Epephant, God in the Bowl, Rogues in the House, etc.. I couldnt get enough.

From there, I collected the Kull comics, and remember a particularly beautifully drawn version of Worms of the Earth in SSoC, from around this time.

So, I confess, Conan occupies a special place in my youth. Im quite an argumentative guy, (you may have noticed!), sometimes I just like to play devils advocate, I like RE Howards stuff a lot!