What do you like about OGL, Conan, & REH's writing?

[Demetrio]

I think in many ways some of his stories are classics of their type. A cut above an awful lot of fantasy fiction. There is a certain amount of fashion in literary tastes but just in a technical sense, Howard's word choice, as we've mentioned, could sometimes be a lot stronger. And while Conan (and the rather identi-kit other heroes) are, I think, perfectly reasonable to have as characters (not everyone needs to be deep), None of his characters seem gone into in much 'depth'. Of course that's part of his style.

He does have some great descriptive scenes, sometimes his writing is as good as anyones, but he's rather too inconsistent. A little more editing might have helped. But of course he had to churn them out for the money... which brings us back to the dreaded 'h' word...

 

[flatscan]

Ok, if you guys want to discuss REH's literary merits or lack thereof, please create your own thread for it and don't threadjack this one. I created this thread in order for people to state what they LIKED about Conan, OGL, and REH's writing. Not for any sort of deep analysis or whatever. If you have favorite methods you'd like to share for running your game, fond memories of past games or whatever, please share them. The entire point of this thread was to show some positivity, not to argue or lord your opinions over others. Thanks.

 

[Demetrio]

Sorry.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Ok, if you guys want to discuss REH's literary merits or lack thereof, please create your own thread for it and don't threadjack this one. I created this thread in order for people to state what they LIKED about Conan, OGL, and REH's writing. Not for any sort of deep analysis or whatever. If you have favorite methods you'd like to share for running your game, fond memories of past games or whatever, please share them. The entire point of this thread was to show some positivity, not to argue or lord your opinions over others. Thanks.

Yes, I apologise too. I did say that I liked the Hyborian Age as an frpg setting though. I appreciate why you started the thread, so I wont butt in.

 

[VincentDarlage]

One thing I like about the Conan stories and how Howard writes them is Conan's supreme confidence.

I get tired of reading about characters who worry about their skills, their abilities, whether they are rightfully chosen for this or not, whether people like them or not... every time I read a character like that, I just want to say, "get over it!" I couldn't read more than two books of Jordan's Wheel of Time series because the characters whined... and whined.... and whined some more. At one point he had two characters who were convinced the other one was better with the girls than he was - and wasted too much time with that idea. I didn't care who was better with the girls. I just wanted the author to get on with the darned story!

I also remember, as a teenager, reading the DragonLance stories and thinking this Huma, as a legendary figure, sounded AWESOME! Then I read the book about Huma, and he was nothing of the sort. Beset by worries, fears and hang-ups he was. I hated it.

Conan just got into gear, and went for it full force. He didn't waste my time with his fears, worries and hang-ups. I, for one, find that refreshing. The stories were about the situation more than the character, and I liked that. It is escapist fantasy. I have my own fears, worries and hang-ups and really don't want to be bothered by other people's when I decide to escape my own for a bit. Howard hit that escapist attitude perfectly for me.

Of course, Superman is my favourite superhero... I like the idea of invincibility, of being an unstoppable force. That is what I would like to be. I am nothing of the sort, but I would like to be.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

One thing I like about the Conan stories and how Howard writes them is Conan's supreme confidence.

I get tired of reading about characters who worry about their skills, their abilities, whether they are rightfully chosen for this or not, whether people like them or not... every time I read a character like that, I just want to say, "get over it!" I couldn't read more than two books of Jordan's Wheel of Time series because the characters whined... and whined.... and whined some more. At one point he had two characters who were convinced the other one was better with the girls than he was - and wasted too much time with that idea. I didn't care who was better with the girls. I just wanted the author to get on with the darned story!

I also remember, as a teenager, reading the DragonLance stories and thinking this Huma, as a legendary figure, sounded AWESOME! Then I read the book about Huma, and he was nothing of the sort. Beset by worries, fears and hang-ups he was. I hated it.

Conan just got into gear, and went for it full force. He didn't waste my time with his fears, worries and hang-ups. I, for one, find that refreshing. The stories were about the situation more than the character, and I liked that. It is escapist fantasy. I have my own fears, worries and hang-ups and really don't want to be bothered by other people's when I decide to escape my own for a bit. Howard hit that escapist attitude perfectly for me.

Of course, Superman is my favourite superhero... I like the idea of invincibility, of being an unstoppable force. That is what I would like to be. I am nothing of the sort, but I would like to be.

Hmm, come lie on my couch and tell me all about your childhood.

 

[Krushnak]

Conan is flawed. He has a love for pretty girls and strong drink and both get him into trouble on more than one occasion, in one of the stories he starts off chained up in jail because of said vices.

Conan is not invincible. In the Hour of the Dragon Conan gets knocked out not once but twice by what would be considered pretty much unnamed npc's in any adventure module. In the story 'shadows in the moonlight' Conan is layed low by a single bullet from a sling and has the damsel rescue him from the pirates.

Conan has fears. Im currently reading through 'the Devil in Iron' and Conan almost runs from the ressurected city after discovering that the snake on the altar is actually real and not a statue of a creature long thought extinct.

Conan grows. We see him grow from being nothing more than an above average strong man and red handed reaver to a noble king who truly cares about his subjects and wont let anyone commit harm against them.

Howard wrote short stories, he didnt have the time to have his characters bitch and moan about everything and i for one am glad of this. I hate nothing more than to start reading a novel to find a couple of chapters in that it is nothing more than a forum for the author to bitch about something. I read to be entertained just like i watch movies or play games to be entertained. Conan is awesome in his simplicity, he knows what he wants and he has no fear in just reaching out and taking it. Im not five years old and i dont need every damn story to be some morality play.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Argh! Sorry flatscan, I have to make one more post! Blame it on these guys who keep talking about it.

Im not 5 years old. Sometimes we read/watch tv/see a flim/surf the net for entertainment. Nothing worng with that. Howards stuff fits into that.. Sometimes we want more. Sometimes we want to be challenged, like, instead of Star Wars we want 2001.

Its not a about some wriiter using his stories to whinge about his personal gripes, I wouldnt bother reading those either. Im talking about books, films, tv shows with some meaning, purpose above and beyond the plot. The kind of thing that becomes part of culture, like, Catch 22, Full Metal Jacket, The Dice Man, Atrocity Exhibition, A Clockwork Orange, the list goes on.

To paraphrase Lex Luthor, some guys can read War & Peace and think its just a good adventure novel. Howard was good at telling stories. Nothing wrong with that. Just dont call it art.

 

[Supplement Four]

Im not 5 years old. Sometimes we read/watch tv/see a flim/surf the net for entertainment. Nothing worng with that. Howards stuff fits into that..

You lost me when you spoke of how "intelligent" the Moorcock stuff is. I haven't read Elric since I was a kid, but about 8 mos. ago, I picked up the first book and read. I remember liking it in high school, when I was first introduced to D&D. Today, as an adult, though...geez, man. You call that intelligent?

It's basically super-fantasy. It's like reading a comic book. There's not a lot of depth there at all.

The room that was like an internal organ at the end--really. C'mon, man. You think that's not fluff?

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Im not 5 years old. Sometimes we read/watch tv/see a flim/surf the net for entertainment. Nothing worng with that. Howards stuff fits into that..

You lost me when you spoke of how "intelligent" the Moorcock stuff is. I haven't read Elric since I was a kid, but about 8 mos. ago, I picked up the first book and read. I remember liking it in high school, when I was first introduced to D&D. Today, as an adult, though...geez, man. You call that intelligent?

It's basically super-fantasy. It's like reading a comic book. There's not a lot of depth there at all.

The room that was like an internal organ at the end--really. C'mon, man. You think that's not fluff?

I know what youre saying. I also said that I didnt think Moorcock a genius. I said as well, somewhere, that Elric was human (oops!), but he is really, for all intents and purposes. Moorcock did churn Elric stories out like potboilers, and he resurrected him from the dead when it became his most popular series, so I know Moorcock had an eye on his bank balance. Thats ok though, we all gotta live.

Moorcock likes Freudian metaphor. When Moorcock mentions a sword, he is usually thinking about a phallus. Elric came to the womblike chamber via a tunnel and forest, you dont have to be Freud to know what he is going on about. Stormbringer is Elrics 'thing', by that I mean, we all have something we depend upon, lean on, dislike, yet love. Cigarettes, beer, whiskey, cocaine, someone else, etc., etc.. Its going to kill you if you rely upon something too much. Theres a lot of stuff in there about fate and free will, questions about being a slave to your nature, morality, etc.. Sometimes, though, these things are a bit too much for Moorcocks writing ability.

People are right when they say that there would be no Elric without Conan. Conan was a barbarian, who hated magic in all its forms, who rose to fame, took the girl and won a kingdom. Moorcock turned that around when he wrote Elric. Elric was a decadent, hyper-civilized sorceror-emperor, who killed his wife and ruined his kingdom and destroyed the world. Like in Scandanavian myth, actually.

Theres things going on in Moorcocks stories. When Howard mentions a sword, you know he's talking about a sword. You know where you are with him. In Moorcocks stuff, theres a rudimentary kind of symbolism going on. Chocolate and vanilla, it depends on what you want, is all I meant.

 

[ferrinwulf]

Personally I like REH's writing, Conan is not immortal, he get's captured, beaten and runs away if he needs to.I like his brooding manner and Howard's use of the wierd to add menace. Being a fan of ancient history I love what he has done to build a world based on world history. It adds a sense of realism to the fantasy world he has created. I like to think that if he had lived longer his writing and world may have surpassed Tolkien's Ring trilogy (which I find rambling and boring at times). Howard's influence can be felt in some modern authors too, Joe Abbercrombie, his Barbarians are very Cimmerian and his world and writing very gritty and dirty, David Gemmell's Drenai novels and the epic Malazan novels by Erckison, very gritty full of blood, Demons and Epic battles, sure there is sorcery in them but the sorcery is dangerous and deadly very reminisent of Howards.

 

[flatscan]

One of my favorite aspects of the Conan game is some of the moral ambiguity it involves and the choices that leads to. For example, 2 sessions ago, the PCs were going through the events of Defending the West from Across the Thunder River.

***WARNING SPOILERS AHEAD***

They were near the end of the second act in that story where they were meeting a particularly disgusting demon to awaken a staff to be used against a Pict Paramount Chief. The demon said he would awaken the staff if the PCs did one of three things for him. The first was to sacrifice a virgin or great warrior to the demon. The second was to give the demon the gift of Fate (for rules purposes this meant all Fate Points would be siphoned off to the demon and the PCs couldn't get more Fate Points until the end of the story). The third option was to enter into a demonic pact.

Well, none of those options sounded good to the PCs. They threw out the sacrifice fairly quickly as 2 of the PCs have Barbaric Codes of Honor and the only virgin around was their employer, and as far as great warriors it was either one of them or a noble ally. I thought they'd go for the second option as several players have been RPing since 1e D&D and the loss of Fate Points would make things run more old school. But these guys have grown fairly reliant on their Fate Points, so that option was surprisingly thrown out. None of the barbarians or borderer wanted to enter into a demonic pact. The Cimmerian and Hyrkanian stalled for time, saying they needed to discuss things with their companions above ground and left. The Stygian scholar stayed behind and questioned the demon about the terms of the pact. Once it was laid out, the Stygian who believed none of the others would agree to any of the 3 options, volunteered himself for the pact. The demon branded him by biting into his chest, above his heart. Then, it awakened the staff.

The role-playing in that session was intense. The choices difficult. When the Stygian met up with his companions and was asked what had happened he somberly replied, "I did what was necessary." And the choice of that one session will have ramifications looooong after this adventure is completed. :twisted:

 

[zozotroll]

What I try to do, is figure out what the party will do next. And cover perhaps 2-3 alternates, if I think they may not go in one direction. Then I work out what encounters are likely to occur.

That sounds like a lot of work. :shock:

Do you find yourself using encounters that weren't used in different situations down the line? Do you end up re-statting nPeeps?

Finaly, I go over any rules I am not that sure of. Right now, that includes most of them. Not that I dont know 3.5, but that there are a number of differences that can trip you if you dont keep up. The guy I am playing with was a Scribe for WoTC, so he always knows the rules better than me anyway, but I try to not embarass myself to much.

Yeah, I let the player's be the rules scholars for their characters abilities, skills, and feats. I have a fairly good knowledge of the generalities of every class, but it's just easier to place that bit of rules mastery on the player's shoulders. That way I can focus on the dirty tricks the nPeeps will use. :twisted:

Does it show that I was a miniature wargamer before there where such things as RPGs? Over 30+ years, I have collected a lot of minis. And terrain as well.

That's awesome. One of my players is an old-school gamer that has hundreds of painted minis. Me, I never had the patience for it. Here's hoping that Conan skirmish game Strom mentioned in another forum comes pre-painted.

It sounds a lot harder than it is. Yes I recycle unused encounters. I also use encounter ideas from one campaign to the next. i have a number of ones than have gone over well in several games, so I just be careful not to use one a player has seen before.

Most of my minis are somewhat sorted out, so finding them is not that much worse.

Today, the kids are at the pool, my wife is jabbering in spanish with one of her buddys. I still dont speak it at all, so nothing for me there. So I am sitting here, makeing up encounters. Have 5-6 done already.

Just as the game doesnt scale, I dont scale encounters. If the players after something guarded by an ancient dragon, and they are still 1st level, they get eaten. So they spend a bit of time on research before they head out. Saves on fate points. Sometimes this can result in some funny moments as when a party really unloaded on a guardian that was like 6 levels below them. The guardian had put out the rumor that he was much more powerful than he was. Worked just fine, the players delayed about 4 levels and then smashed him like a small bug.

 

[flatscan]

That's cool Zozo! Could you post a couple of your favorite encounters?

 

[zozotroll]

A couple of things. Much as jokes dont always translate well across languages, game incidents often dont translate well from group to group. All of these have been used numerous times, but the demographic of my groups hasnt changed that much, so each time was a new presentation to similar people.

Many times you get a show off in a group, who is always ready to be one up on everybody. Most of these where crafted to drop them a peg.

The hunt.

After the group has forgaten to get enough food, the Ranger/ borderer/woodsman goes out to hunt for the party, often commenting on how they should have been more careful. Spoting and stalking a deer/elk he moves in for the kill. Invariably, once he has spoted his prey, he no longer looks for anything else. unknown to him is that a large cat is also stalking the prey. After he drops the critter and goes up to butcher it, the cat jumps him. Sometimes the group is to busy laughing to help out.

 

[zozotroll]

I should also note that if you dont write it down on your sheet, or a sseperate gear sheet, you did not bring it. What ever it is.

The camp.

Late on a drizzly afternoon, the party decides to push on just a little farther, rather than takeing the time to find a good spot. this has been encouraged by the ranger as he can easily find a great spot. He of course blows his roll. He gets a spot at the base of a hill with little cover, so the increasing rain runs off and washes them out. The party aslways then moves to the top of the hill, and starts a big fire to dry out. Of course once the fire is going good and everybody is drying out a group of monsters or bandits attack.

 

[flatscan]

Oh man, I'll have to keep The Hunt in mind. :lol:

 

[zozotroll]

More to follow, having trouble with the multitasking today.

 

[zozotroll]

The Holdup.

While traveling on a road between two hills the party is confronted by a short opponent(duck or hobbit, not sure what to use in Conan). He tells them to drop thier money and back off. If they check out the hills around them, they can see a number of positions with crossbowmen.

If the party drops the money, the short one gets it and scrams. I have never had this happen. If instead the party attacks the XBs, the short one jumps into a hlole beside him that has a length of tunnel he can run down, but the party probably cant. The XBs are a sham, just scarecrows with barrel staves to look like bows at a distance. I have had a number of partys so annoyed that they stent a day trying to catch him.

I should note that the original idea of this comes from a published supplement, but not in a system many here will have read.

 

[zozotroll]

The Hookup.

FOR SEMI-MATURE AUDIENCES( or as mature as gamers get)

The party is in a bar drinking. It should be in a place they feel secure. In walk a pair of hot redheaded sisters. They will have been warned several real weeks before that the badguys have a team of redhead rangers that are very effective, but nobody has ever remebered until to late.

In many groups there is always a guy( never a woman) who wants to game out an ingame hookup. This is his chance. The sisters head straight for him. After a couple of rounds of bar stock, they offer some of thier own vintage. Shortly after that, they haul him off to thier room.

Lter, when the party finaly finds him, he will be naked, tied face down on a bed, with various embarousing indignetys done to him, and as a final insult, they left a note on the point of a dagger, and guess where they inserted the hilt? The note of course is dirisive of his lack of prowess.

Great way to introduce a recurring villien. Players have a major desire for revenge. much more so than if they had just cut his throat.