What do Narn Players Want?
- Thread starter Apachex
- Start date
katadder said:
I thought you can't re-roll a already re-rolled roll/dice ? So it would effect only the use of one weapon ( with TL ) and the come about order. Currently you need a come about to use the boresight with its mighty 3 AD so there is no way to use CAF ever.
( BTW How often can you use roll in one sentence ? :roll: )
Making all boresight beams twin-link would be a bad idea. I thought more about giving it only a few ship to get more different partitionings regarding firepower and balancing ...
Maybe its a bad idea - i don't know ...
I am not sugesstign Twin-linking all boresight beams, but just a few ships to both make them more effective and give them a different feel.
THe G'Quan is one of the few ships (if not only) I would do this with because it gives it additional punch, but doesn't break it.
Compare a TL G'Quan to a Primus--Even w/ TL A primus is likely to do more damage AND is just as Likely to hit--Before CAF. 3 AD SAP B DD TL is still less poweful than 6 AD SAP B DD.
My other Suggestion (and I think the G'Quan needs both) is to give the secondary weapon system (the Vanila dice) an extra 4"-6" range--dame dice. That would make it a true brawler.
(Although in fairness I thin the Primus Class Twin Arrays on Centari SHips shoudl get the same increase)
THe G'Quan is one of the few ships (if not only) I would do this with because it gives it additional punch, but doesn't break it.
Compare a TL G'Quan to a Primus--Even w/ TL A primus is likely to do more damage AND is just as Likely to hit--Before CAF. 3 AD SAP B DD TL is still less poweful than 6 AD SAP B DD.
My other Suggestion (and I think the G'Quan needs both) is to give the secondary weapon system (the Vanila dice) an extra 4"-6" range--dame dice. That would make it a true brawler.
(Although in fairness I thin the Primus Class Twin Arrays on Centari SHips shoudl get the same increase)
DrSeltsam said:
Take a look at the Drazi fleet list. They have a few Twin-Linked boresight weapons already.
As to what I want for the Narn, perhaps a couple more AD on the Dag'Kar's Energy Mines. Some thing done about the G'Quan 'War' variants to make them even close to being considered to support a Bin'Tak.
Oh, and more AD on the Mag Guns as I can never hit anything with them with more than 1 dice....
TWL beams aren't that bad since most have low AD, there are some ships that probably don't need it but fwd arc beams still kick their butt.
The G'Quan doesn't become broken with it, SFOS Omega didn't or Hyperion (note we mainly only used EA,Narn & Centauri). We played a long time with these house rules and the primus still came out on top.
The G'Quan doesn't become broken with it, SFOS Omega didn't or Hyperion (note we mainly only used EA,Narn & Centauri). We played a long time with these house rules and the primus still came out on top.
I find it very funny that folks think a 3 AD boresighted beam on a battle level hull would break it, but the 6 AD beam fore arc'd on the Primus is fine given it is almost always CAF'd the first three turns of a fight.
To burger who's pontificating on beam and twin link being incompatiable how exactly does CAF and beam interact so that those dice reroll? If we are going to start calling folks silly I'd love to hear the sane rational explination of how you can 'concentrate' a beam. I mean it is already concentrated energy isn't it? You can't say hold it on target longer can you? Isn't that the re-rolls you already get? It's not like they were intentionally taking it off target to swing it at another target.
Not trying to start a flame just saying that the terms used do not represent a specific real (fantasy?) world mechanic, they represent a game effect. I mean look at all stop and pivot, um, why can't I fire my guns while I'm turning again?
Ripple
To burger who's pontificating on beam and twin link being incompatiable how exactly does CAF and beam interact so that those dice reroll? If we are going to start calling folks silly I'd love to hear the sane rational explination of how you can 'concentrate' a beam. I mean it is already concentrated energy isn't it? You can't say hold it on target longer can you? Isn't that the re-rolls you already get? It's not like they were intentionally taking it off target to swing it at another target.
Not trying to start a flame just saying that the terms used do not represent a specific real (fantasy?) world mechanic, they represent a game effect. I mean look at all stop and pivot, um, why can't I fire my guns while I'm turning again?
Ripple
Apachex said:
Absolutely, compared to a 6 AD ( cafable) F beam i can't see why a 3 AD B beam twin linked should be wrong. All right if you don't like them to be twin linked, up the G' Quan B beams to 6 AD as Burger suggested. That makes them even stronger then being twin linked
Calistan said:
Not sure ... maybe i missed something but i don't think that there are any "benefits" for having boresight. Generalyy less AD and you have to turn to use it ( which means no CAF ).
Many weapons i can currently remember that have a boresight arc also have less or only equal no. of AD cpmpared to a front orc beam. I don't count the weapons with SL for this example here. Take a look at the G'Quan, Brokados -> Tinashi, Primus, Avioki, Kaliva, Lakara.
There are some exceptions ( e.g. Drazi ) to this. I think that the boresight is compensated by a additional weapon payload - but im not sure about this at the moment.
angelus2000
Mongoose
And at the moment they dont. Technically most of the ships that have Boresight weapons are also supposes to have bigger and better secondaries than F arc beam ships. G'quans have the E-Mines, Omegas all those mid-range Pulse cannons that are twin-linked and mulitple fighters, but they don't have more effective secondaries compared to their contemporaries. Tinashis have those lovely 18 TL Minibeams, Tertius have AP DD Matter cannons.
At the moments theres only two real ways around it.
1.Make the secondaries better on the Boresight ships
2.Nerf the secondaries on the Forward Arc ships
Frankly, I'm more inclined to go with option 1. Better guns equal more ships going blooey faster equals more games played. Both the beams on the Gquan and Omega whould be bumped to around 5 for real balance in thier PL, Which isnt going to happen because they have other ships to compentsate.
At the moments theres only two real ways around it.
1.Make the secondaries better on the Boresight ships
2.Nerf the secondaries on the Forward Arc ships
Frankly, I'm more inclined to go with option 1. Better guns equal more ships going blooey faster equals more games played. Both the beams on the Gquan and Omega whould be bumped to around 5 for real balance in thier PL, Which isnt going to happen because they have other ships to compentsate.
Maybe weapon ranges should be reversed, beam for close up work slicing and dicing and your other weapons for range firing like in the the show. It's nearly always the ballistic weapons firing first.
Missles, Torps then Pulse cannons then TWL,MB then Railguns, Anti Matter Cannons then for ultracarnage Beams which are nigh unstopable. Ranges longest to shortest. Boresight beams being longer range than fwd arc.
Missles, Torps then Pulse cannons then TWL,MB then Railguns, Anti Matter Cannons then for ultracarnage Beams which are nigh unstopable. Ranges longest to shortest. Boresight beams being longer range than fwd arc.
Actually, there shouldn't be much to stop a beam in space, so its ranges should be rather significant. At extreme ranges, targetting becomes a little difficult to accomplish because of the speed of light. In theory, you could be 1 AU away and if you have the right technology, then you can fire a beam with little dissipation from that distance, but it would take the beam 8 mins to reach its target. Also dust clouds should be able reduce the AD of a beam weapon. In the end, beam weapons should be the easiest weapon to defend against becuase if you expect the use of beam weapons, then you can setup defenses to diffuse beam weapons. Up close, weapons like rail guns should be more devastating and damaging. I would love to see the Omega with railguns as secondaries and the Narn should have some sort of mass produced slug thrower as well.
vitalis6969
Mongoose
Here we have been playing with a couple of versions of house rules to cover the boresite beam weapons for the Narn and EA.
The first is a simple fix of Boresite = 1" wide path for first third of range, 2" wide path for second third of range, and a 3" wide path for last third of range. This takes into account that there is "some" ability to aim the weapons other than turning the entire megaton vessel microns to align the main weapons. note that this is a house assumption. This comes from games like Star Frontier Space Battles that I played when waaaaaay younger in my life.
The second simple fix is that from ship to four inches is considered point blank and therefore boresite, four inches to half is a 2" wide path, from half to full range weapon is 3" wide path.
The second is easyer to play and shows that lack of adjusting fire for point blank.
For playablility it works wonders and takes care of at least some of the problems of drawing exact lines over thousands of miles of space. You still need tactics though to pull it off, especially as ranges close.
The first is a simple fix of Boresite = 1" wide path for first third of range, 2" wide path for second third of range, and a 3" wide path for last third of range. This takes into account that there is "some" ability to aim the weapons other than turning the entire megaton vessel microns to align the main weapons. note that this is a house assumption. This comes from games like Star Frontier Space Battles that I played when waaaaaay younger in my life.
The second simple fix is that from ship to four inches is considered point blank and therefore boresite, four inches to half is a 2" wide path, from half to full range weapon is 3" wide path.
The second is easyer to play and shows that lack of adjusting fire for point blank.
For playablility it works wonders and takes care of at least some of the problems of drawing exact lines over thousands of miles of space. You still need tactics though to pull it off, especially as ranges close.
Target said:
Hi, I like your idea Target, that would justify bore sight beams. All beam should be under 18” except for Vorlons and bore sight races and Minbari and Centauri may get the full range only by bore sight at close range they get back there full arc.
There was another idea that could help a lot, it came up on don’t remember when. A special action “lock on target” CQ8 that gives the ship an extra 45º turn at the end of the movement fase, to get a bore sight of the declared enemy ship that moved after your ship; with the restriction that you can only fire at the declared target ship.
Arcadia.
Sulfurdown
Mongoose
Calistan said:
I thought that most of the Boresight weapons were supposed to be mounted on ships of lower PL for game purposes. Effectively take a war level forward arc weapon and knock off a few AD, reduce it to Boresight and put it on a Battle level ship. In some cases like the EA vs Centauri this doesn't necessarily hold up because the Centauri are supposed to be, what, a couple centuries more advanced if not nearly a millenia more advanced then the Earthers. And the Narn fit somewhere inbetween. Makes for a tough balancing act between maintaining a competative fleet basis and a reflection of the various technological capabilities.
