What are we facing

[dyssnowman]

These are some of the changes that I had compiled from the thread about one of the playtests. I can not guarntee that this is still accurate, but at least it will give an idea some of the changes in game terms.

Fire Zone: Allocated to nearest models first, but some weapons can bypass this - a Javelin can pick out models of Size 3 or higher, for example. Sniper rifles, if a Ready action is taken, can pick out any model.

Cover: Target and Kill are both +2 against shooting only. In close combat, the models in cover can react in-between an enemy moving to engage them and rolling CC dice.

Suppression: If every model in a unit is allocated a damage die (ie they are all caught in a Fire Zone) during a single Shoot action, the unit is then considered Suppressed. This means that it loses its next action and may only move as a reaction. Most bugs are immune to suppression except, of course, the brain.

Reactions: Each unit is now limited to one reaction per turn. In addition, all models in a unit can now act if an enemy model completes an action within 10" of any model in the unit.

Artillery: There are new deviation rules (no details yet...).

Shatter point: This is a special victory condition that only applies to the basic rules sheet. The main rulebook will have a revised engagement system as well as specific scenarios.

So how's that for answers and rumors, combatdroid?

As for the change to the platoon stucture, I had not thought about it, but it does make sense give the way that the units are being released. I had seen in Battlefield: Evo that command squads provide an additional action (like the brain bug's co-ordinate ability), so perhaps something similar will be done with SST. Pure speculation, but it seems like a possibility.

 

[Proteus454]

Now, I can imagine omitting the prior victory conditions and organization/army lists in the first few updates, given how everything is being released. But I have to say, I shall be seriously saddened if that proves to be a long-term strategy.

In fact, when Mongoose announced this new policy, it was my biggest fear that the kind of background info accumulation made possible by the army book format would fall by the wayside, and worse yet, that the groovy army list building rules and such that really differentiated the different races (as opposed to the universal force chart for 40K) would do likewise.

I'll be picking up the full rulebook when it comes out for sure - here's hoping it's only a temporary measure, eh?

 

[dyssnowman]

As for army building, I wonder if it will be something like Warmachine. 0-x number of units per commander or something similar. It would be easy enough using this system to create something closely resembling the normal army list, at least for the MI. I have no idea how they will handle the Skinnies and Bugs.

 

[Proteus454]

I was also initially not-so-sold on some of the proposed changes - I rather enjoyed the novelty of there being no morale check as such in the system (after all, these are killer bugs and the Mobile Infantry we're talking about here), but I s'pose even Cap Troopers have to duck once in a while, eh?

The list dyssnowman presents seems sound enough to me. But I have to admit, I'm still a tad bit concerned about list building...ah well, time will tell, eh?

 

[Cozmo]

I was also initially not-so-sold on some of the proposed changes - I rather enjoyed the novelty of there being no morale check as such in the system (after all, these are killer bugs and the Mobile Infantry we're talking about here), but I s'pose even Cap Troopers have to duck once in a while, eh?

The list dyssnowman presents seems sound enough to me. But I have to admit, I'm still a tad bit concerned about list building...ah well, time will tell, eh?

They do 'duck' only it's calle dflinching especially away from those great big bug next to them.

 

[Galatea]

I think suppression is a good thing IF it gives +1 Target/Kill against ranged weapons (-> counts as light cover). Exception are flamers of course.
Otherwise it's a senseless rules that basically sais 'Troopers hold their head down/duck and cover, but it doesn't give them anything except they can't do anything and will be killed as easy as before'.

I hope they won't drop the PL (maybe give Bugs the chance to decide PL free as MI), cause it's one of the most interesting parts of the game (besides tactics of course).

 

[Darkghost]

The the thing, suppression isn't supposed to be a good thing. I think they should change it to where it allows move actions towards the nearest cover or directly away from the enemy.

The rational is bullets are going all over the place, and everyone is trying to duck for cover (and thus not acting), but if there isn't any cover there, then you don't get a bonus.

 

[Voracioustigger]

The the thing, suppression isn't supposed to be a good thing. I think they should change it to where it allows move actions towards the nearest cover or directly away from the enemy.

The rational is bullets are going all over the place, and everyone is trying to duck for cover (and thus not acting), but if there isn't any cover there, then you don't get a bonus.

Ya, Suppression is pretty much every immediately dropping to the ground because of a hail of incoming fire. They're not running for cover because standing up makes them bigger targets. They're just staying down until the barrage is over.

I think it makes the games a lot more strategic, and also makes them last a bit longer. So many games in SST are decided in 1-2 turns now that it seems a bit unfair. Suppression takes away actions from units that would normally do a lot of damage in a single round.

 

[Galatea]

The rational is bullets are going all over the place, and everyone is trying to duck for cover (and thus not acting), but if there isn't any cover there, then you don't get a bonus.

But in fact you ARE a smaller target, when you fall to the ground. So you should at least get a 6+ dodge save (or +1 to an existing). Probably not the best, but it can save your ass.
Of course just models of size 1 should get that, because an Exo or a Warrior Bug ducking for cover is still big enough to get easily hit.
(though I don't believe a Bug would duck for cover)

 

[dyssnowman]

You may ultimately become a smaller target, but the thing is that before you hit the ground you are standing up. So your standing there, the bullets start flying and then you hit the ground. For the initial attack that causes the suppression, there would no benefit. Maybe after the initial attack, since you would be on the ground at that point, but for the initial attack definitely not.

 

[Galatea]

No, of course not for the initial attack.
But once you are lying down you should get something like +1 Target/Kill as if you where in light cover (what you in fact are).
Of course this must be ignored by weapons with the 'Flame'-trate.
You can't duck from a tanker spit.

 

[Proteus454]

No, of course not for the initial attack.
But once you are lying down you should get something like +1 Target/Kill as if you where in light cover (what you in fact are).

To be honest, I don't know about that either. Way I see it, simply cutting the unit in question down an action is plenty. After all, we can assume they're already using the cover available to the fullest possible extent, hence why they'd get a cover save bonus.

No, hiding and scrunching yourself into every available cranny seems to be a Skinny specialty, given that they can bend so incredibly. Leave the Hide reaction to the Skinnies, say I.

 

[dyssnowman]

You know, I think that I have to agree with Proteus on this one. I can understand what you are saying, Galatea, but being suppressed is supposed to be a bad thing. Giving someone a cover save would seem to be giving someone a benefit for getting themselves into a bad situation.

 

[Darkghost]

A trained combat force wouldn't be out in open standing upright under normal circumstances. They would be using what cover there was, and keeping low. Once they are suppressed they would be in that same cover, but not willing to poke thier heads out and shoot as often.

 

[Proteus454]

Yes, exactly. After all, just 'cuz the model's posing up a storm... *grin*

 

[cOwgummi]

but won't the new surpression rukle make MI vs. MI battling even MORe dependant on who gets the first round of shooting? I mean especially when playing LAMI it shouldn't be a problem to surpress most of my enemys army that survives the initial onslaught in the first round, thus making it even easier to finish them off.

 

[Voracioustigger]

but won't the new surpression rukle make MI vs. MI battling even MORe dependant on who gets the first round of shooting? I mean especially when playing LAMI it shouldn't be a problem to surpress most of my enemys army that survives the initial onslaught in the first round, thus making it even easier to finish them off.

You'd think so at first, but think about that a bit more...

So, let's say LAMI v PAMI...

The LAMI could easily suppress PAMI units... IF the PAMI sit out in the open waiting to be shot. The PAMI, on the other hand, will be shooting at larger squads making them difficult to suppress.

Suppression doesn't happen as often as you'd think. It also causes people to think a bit more about their deployment. Sure, those Moritas won't kill many models in one of your units, but now they might deny them an action, which is a big disadvantage especially if you planned on having them jump.

It really just makes you think more about the game, and it has some really interesting consequences. Like, maybe it's the last turn of the game and the MI player is trying to get into your deployment zone or reach an objective, well, before a few moritas wouldn't really even have a chance at stopping a 5 man squad from doing that, but now they can!

 

[Galatea]

Well, I also think it doesn't happen that often.
Most time only small units, already soften up by enemy fire, will get suppressed.
Or if a huge barrage (like a plasma bug's shot) is landing on their heads (though in that case most time there won't be any models left to be suppressed).

As a bug player I don't have to care that much about it as probably most of my units will be unaffected by suppression fire (ever seen a bug ducking for cover?).
But it makes Blaster Bugs an even more interesting choice.

I think supression a good thing because it forces small armies with small squads (which are quite mobile) to be on the move and not walk through a hail of fire trusting in their big pimped armour.
And don't think that Marauders will be affected by suppression.

 

[BuShips]

Does this help any? :lol: :lol:
(no, I don't suppose that it does...) :wink:

 

[dant164]

Warrior bugs ducking and covering?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



"Alas, poor Warrior Bug 137"

"I knew him well Warrior bug 248"