Wayfarer
- Thread starter alex_greene
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Morgan d'Barganfore
Mongoose
Anyway, coming back to what, for me at least, is one of the main point of this thread, MRQII-->Wayfarer won't touch the core rules (aka base mechanics) although a couple of tweaks/errata may get assimilated along the way. It'll be stripped of Gloratha references, and then Dues Vult and similar may (Mongoose owned settings) get the attention instead.
master of reality
Mongoose
drdentista said:
I'm not sure what the issue is. I don't see how the basic mechanics of casting a spell require any knowledge about Glorantha. The references to runes really don't affect the basic mechanics. Casting a spell is just like performing a skill. There's a percent chance of success. Each spell has a magnitude, range, etc. The basic differences between the four types of magic (common, sorcery, divine, and spirit) really come down to
1) how the character obtains the spell: teacher, grimoire, a god or diety.
2) what kinds of spells are available
3) how the chance of success is determined
4) can the spell's magnitude or range be altered
I don't see what any of this has to do with Glorantha. The magic from any fantasy setting can pretty much be described as one of the four types of magic listed in MRQ2 core book. All that really has to be done to make MRQ2's magic system truly generic is remove the last half of page 101, and, with the exception of the explanation of magic points, remove pages 102 to 105.
languagegeek
Mongoose
I remember first reading the RQII corebook and being confused as to what the point of Runes was anyway, it's not as if they affected anything much mechanically, I looked and looked and found nothing of substance. In the new wayfarer ruleset, why not just say that "The god of the Sun" would offer spells that had to do with Light or Fire and not bother with Light Runes or whatever. I do use Runes as a handy organizational tool keeping shared properties grouped together.master of reality said:
I don't see how the core magic types are tied to a Gloranthan setting. If you want D&D style spellcasting, follow the Divine magic mechanic: memorization and spell levels. If you want a simple spend-points system, common magic is for you. Sorcery has a lot of opportunities for spell modification/mixing&matching to suit a campaign of creative wizards. Spirit magic, the various magics in Vikings, etc. In the end, RQII provides access to whatever kind of magic you need for your setting.
To me, restricting Sun God spells to fire and light is as bad as restricting them to runic spells.
Spells should reflect the powers and abilities of the deities themselves.
Perseus has an adamant sword, helm of darkness and a polished shield, so his priests should get spells relating to those objects. None of those are runic or relate to his position as a hero but they do relate to his story.
Spells should reflect the powers and abilities of the deities themselves.
Perseus has an adamant sword, helm of darkness and a polished shield, so his priests should get spells relating to those objects. None of those are runic or relate to his position as a hero but they do relate to his story.
alex_greene
Guest
The magic system can be cored out and rebuilt from the ground up. It's like a legacy system, a relic of the old game, and with its core raison d'etre - questing after Runes - gone, there's no need for this system.
Personally, I love the core magic system (although including Elric's summoning rules would be cool).
As far as runes go, they are a good tool to structure your cosmology and cults when you are world building (especially on the fly), but they could easily just be called 'archetypes.'
As far as runes go, they are a good tool to structure your cosmology and cults when you are world building (especially on the fly), but they could easily just be called 'archetypes.'
alex_greene
Guest
Or "Gods."Tipsy said:
Morgan d'Barganfore
Mongoose
Hi all,
If the parting of ways hadn't occurred, then we wouldn't be having the discussion about magic systems with or without runes. And, in passing, I agree with whoever just said that Runes weren't in your face - in Deus Vult it's low magic anyway (well so far).
Ok, given that the ways are parting, it could be "let's play something called RQII.V and, by the way, all the mechanics have completely changed." That would be very bad.
But hey, it hasn't happened that way so let's be a little more up beat about, hmm?
Once again, Matt said the core rules won't change. (Ok maybe erratas by osmosis or whatever but that's about it apart from Glorantha extraction.)
GMs can do whatever they want to do with the magic system or any other tweaking for that matter. But I, for one, am pleased it's (ok Wayfarer) still on the market essentially unmolested.
If the parting of ways hadn't occurred, then we wouldn't be having the discussion about magic systems with or without runes. And, in passing, I agree with whoever just said that Runes weren't in your face - in Deus Vult it's low magic anyway (well so far).
Ok, given that the ways are parting, it could be "let's play something called RQII.V and, by the way, all the mechanics have completely changed." That would be very bad.
But hey, it hasn't happened that way so let's be a little more up beat about, hmm?
Once again, Matt said the core rules won't change. (Ok maybe erratas by osmosis or whatever but that's about it apart from Glorantha extraction.)
GMs can do whatever they want to do with the magic system or any other tweaking for that matter. But I, for one, am pleased it's (ok Wayfarer) still on the market essentially unmolested.
Spot on.
Ideally a tool-kit for building pantheons and religions would be cool, with myth (the deity`s history, abilities and power) dictating the divine spells and training the god dishes out.
Alex you've obviously been reading the old edition of rules?
The magic systems in MRQII are pretty much Gloranthanless, for some reason the runes make an appearance but are pretty much disconnected from the systems themselves.
Unlike MRQ1 which had common magic tied to runes and the dumb idea of questing after Runes (Going on a killing spree to harvest runes from the slain).
Runes are a bit like spheres of influences from the old D&D rules, but archetype is pretty much a better term. Though the runes are bit to blunt to broad in their meaning;
I prefer a more descriptive motif for my gods
i.e Mercury being/containing the Archetype of Trader, Thief, and Messenger.
If you expressed him as set of runes you end up with Trade, Disorder, and communication, which don't really indicate what aspects of the runes the god presents.
master of reality
Mongoose
PhilHibbs said:
Yes, removing the references to runes won't change the mechanics of casting spells.
IMO the magic RAW work great.
If Mongoose needs to remove references to runes or Glorantha to create a generic system, that's fine, but the basic mechanics of spell casting should be left alone.
languagegeek
Mongoose
The point was that for those who want to, you can replace "Rune" with "God" (or whatever) and it's only the flavour that changes, the magic systems themselves are pretty much completely divorced from Gloranthan Runes. Personally I don't like a grimoire or cult spell list to be too much tied to a single archetype, instead I prefer to assign spells which would likely further the cult's priorities or relate to its history.soltakss said:
drdentista
Banded Mongoose
What I meant was that the RQ magic system(s), to me anyway, always felt very RQ/Glorantha specific. Stuff like the concept of heavy game influence of cults, common magic available to everyone and of course runes (NOT the physical ones from MRQ1). Of course I can choose and mod what magic system I would like in another setting. So I do not think that Wayfarer should change anything rules-wise. But for me, the RQ magic system will always be, at least in "game feel"-terms very Glorantha. Just my take on RQ magic. Otherwise, I think that the MRQ2 magic system is the best ever. However, in another setting, I will mod the magic in my campaign anyway...
I think Runequest is the best fantasy ruleset i have ever played - love the flexibility and personalisation of magic, gritty combat and ability to build any concept you can think off.
One thing i do struggle with, is that combat is all based on the attackers skills , shouldn't the defenders get some allowance for being nimble, low armour etc rather than just a parry?
One thing i do struggle with, is that combat is all based on the attackers skills , shouldn't the defenders get some allowance for being nimble, low armour etc rather than just a parry?
