War in the Twenty-First Century

Right. I've made some ham-fisted attempts at putting together ship stats for some more of the Centauri ships. (although if Tolwyn's done his, it'd be good to see the original versions.)

One thing I was going to recommend; Rename and Re-stat the Heavy plasma cannons to Ion cannons - such that ships in this era carry a mixture of Ion Cannons and Light Ion cannons (I always dislike a fleet having a 'light' weapon when they don't have a 'normal' or 'heavy' version of the weapon, or else the classification makes no sense!).

I also cut off the interceptors, so that the Kendari - which does double duty as Corvan and Maximus - is a valuable ship, and have put in some variants - the Balcirax and Fallena for the Balciron (a more dedicated gunship and a light troopship/carrier respectively), Kasta for the Celerian (swapping forward ion cannons for a fighter wing), and Valtor for the Optine (a Secundus-style refit with Ion cannons replacing the assault lasers).

I'll do a bit of formatting work on them, and post them up.





As far as Centauri/Orieni fleets go, we can fiddle a bit but it's not hard as the imagination is done for us.

Background really doesn't need touching; WOTCR is a work of art in that respect.

The other fleets that might be worth touching on are the Drazi and Abbai both of whom the Centauri fought at some point. In the case of the Drazi I'd be tempted to go with a three-ship set:

Starhawk - Sunhawk predecessor, no beam weapon, just particle blasters.
Flamehawk - Solarhawk spiritual predecessor - a slow-loading boresight heavy plasma cannon for heavy wrecking work

and the most flexible but politically troublesome!

Lancehawk - a Starhawk packing an Orieni Laser Lance - the capture of one of which started the whole shooting match off....


Obviously some early variant of Jumphawk, Eyehawk and possible Guardhawk might be needed. For the sake of simplicity I might ignore fighters; with the entire fleet being fast gunships they seem out of place.




I've no idea for the 20th century abbai. Defensive principles, certainly, but is it too early for shields? Hyach had interceptors in this period so those are a possibility. Particle Arrays are a likely weapon...not necessarily quadded up, though, and the combat laser is a bit of a no-no.
Plasma cannon? seems a bit un-pacifistic...







Anyway, other than those, the most important thing we can work out are some scenarios. Suggestions on a postcard.



1) Obvious starting scenario - House Kasto (we need 'house fleet' rules. I like the double-up crippled/skeleton crewed stat, naff CQ, naff initiative for increased numbers, but haven't heard anyone else's opinion) versus a dDrazi raider base, with a lancehawk amongst the fleet. Centauri aim to "stand down and prepare to be boarded!", or board, the ship, Drazi to escape off the centauri table edge (the centauri are between them and the jump gate. If it gets killed, then normal victory points apply for the raider base, and the rest of the raider fleet, to determine the winner.



What other bits of the WOTCR would make for good scenarios? Orieni assault on Drakh world is one, maybe. Go with default drakh fleet.
 
I have just finished up to 80 % of the Centauri ships, but some personal troubles stop disrupted my development there.

I'll post what I have as soon ans I can,so everybody can comment on them.
 
Hmm...

Reading the WOTCR background, I can see the following scenarios jump out at me:


Opening Shots
The House Kasto/RN fleet attacks the Drazi Raiders and in the process Shaal Jaddo captures a Drazi ship with Orieni weapons and technicians on board, sparking the war.

Point of Engagement
RN 8th Superb Fleet's utter massacre at the hands of a Hand of the Blessed ambush in Djost. Despite its name the fleet performs little better than house militia and is decimated.

Punitive Measures
House Kasto and RN friends gun down some Drazi.

The Striking Storm
The initial Strike Group incursion into Centauri space, taking out 23rd Standard Fleet in Luthanka.

The Lion's Fall
First Battle of Tagarhd. House Vario leads a pure house fleet force, on the defensive this time, and despite numbers gets whupped even more than the RN did at Djost.

Cautery
The Republic Counterattack - actually two counterattacks - but the effect of both was the same. Beta 1 is probably the best battle to use - the Centauri attack, beat off the Hand of the Blessed forces, and are able to keep pressing home despite Orieni reinforcements turning up.

Suprise Assault
Taltorum assault through a new hyperspace route - an Orieni 'jump in' battle, with the Centauri sitting around surprised (Ambush-style activation?)

There are no real battles of note (or more accurately loads of them but no distinctive ones) until

Breaking Point
Polgrath assault. The strike groups destroy vast quantities of centauri ships, but are overwhelmed by sheer numbers. The Vorlon Fire, the flagship, gets killed.

Expansionist Gambit
House Torra, in a wonderfully stupid move, tries to attack Abbai space. The fish are not amused and force matters to a stalemate.

Coup De Main
House Syma tries for the Imperial Purple. The RN object, and there is a major engagement between RN and house forces at Centauri Prime

Enemies of the Gods
The Orieni assault on the Drakh 'Homeworld'

Final Consequences
The Centauri assault - led by Admiral Shaal Jaddo - into Saleh in Orieni Space, by RN 23rd Valiant Fleet, ultimately leads to the Centauri dismembering the Orieni empire, and the borderline surrender of the Treaty of Seliffe
 
locarno24 said:
One thing I was going to recommend; Rename and Re-stat the Heavy plasma cannons to Ion cannons - such that ships in this era carry a mixture of Ion Cannons and Light Ion cannons (I always dislike a fleet having a 'light' weapon when they don't have a 'normal' or 'heavy' version of the weapon, or else the classification makes no sense!).

One quick point.....its highly likely that the current "light" weapon may have been the "heavy" weapon (or at least the only version) in an earlier life, however, we continue to call it "light" to minimize confusion.


locarno24 said:
Background really doesn't need touching; WOTCR is a work of art in that respect.

Thank you! It's nice to here appreciation for something we spent alot of time on.

locarno24 said:
The other fleets that might be worth touching on are the Drazi and Abbai both of whom the Centauri fought at some point.

locarno24 said:
I've no idea for the 20th century abbai. Defensive principles, certainly, but is it too early for shields? Hyach had interceptors in this period so those are a possibility. Particle Arrays are a likely weapon...not necessarily quadded up, though, and the combat laser is a bit of a no-no. Plasma cannon? seems a bit un-pacifistic...

Allot of that informaiton was in Showdowns-8 and Variants-6. They include the following ships and Showdown-8 had scenarios

The Orieni Imperium

Faithful Search Explorer
Resolute Military Freighter
Seeker Reconnaissance Corvette
Crusader Heavy Frigate
High Templar Interceptor
Pariah Light Command Ship
Righteous Missile Support Ship
Staunch Strike Frigate
Virtue Strike Force Frigate

The Centauri Republic

Garut Class Survey Ship
Virlisi Class Logistics Ship
Armus Long Haul Freighter / Capit Priority Freighter
Asturias Carrier
Aurillia Cruiser
Balsavor Gunship
Equata Intruder
Falassa Escort Carrier
Phalan-I Heavy Interceptor
High Output Thrust (H.O.T.) Fighter Refit
Soladon Escort Cruiser
Taras Strike Destroyer
Varilon Close Escort
Ventrus Light Cruiser

The Centauri Privateers

Cestus Attack Ship
Dux Jump Cruiser
Liuli Destroyer
Pillum Command Ship

The Drazi Freehold

Peregrine Jump Cruiser
Nightowl Hyperspace Probe
Shrike Heavy Destroyer
Merlin Frigate
Dragon Light Fighter
Dudroma Defense Satellite
Kromala Defense Base
Auk Gunship
Egret Combat Scout
Heron Minesweeper
Pelican Military Freighter
Penguin Landing Ship
Skua Heavy Escort
Swallow Light Carrier
Swift Escort Frigate
Warbird Cruiser (Early)
War Talon Escort Carrier (Early)

The Raiders

Brigand Attack Cruiser
Corsair
Adder Light Fighter
Looter Support Cruiser
Pillager Advanced Cruiser
Ruffian Cruiser
Thirsta Gunboat

The Abbai Matriarchate

Tetrav Heavy Frigate
Selatra Shield Base
Bochi Defense Satellite
Nota Deep Space Scout
Benota Fast Frigate
Brova Jump Cruiser
Kirstom Large Cruiser
Kirva Jammer Satellite
Kostina Carrier
Lystala Patrol Cruiser
Motenai Heavy Mine Layer
Sellac Freighter
Seta Group Scout
Tetrana Escort Frigate

The Rogolon Dynasty

Tovin Small Warship
Tolov Warship
Rogon Large Warship
Vostor Super Heavy Fighter
Chelek Light Fighter
Shogalov Planetary Defense Base
Tasco Defense Satellites
Levaston Freighter
Rostov Outrider
Tussova Close Combat Frigate

The Usuuth Coalition

Orthuus Battle Leader
Serron Attack Ship
Sarlon Sniper
Baroon Escort Cutter
Rowlon Armored Fighter
Dovarum Micro-Sat
Orthuul Fleet Scout
Thira Freighter
Sethrus Beam Cruiser
Sinthon Light Carrier
Staroon Strike Ship

locarno24 said:
What other bits of the WOTCR would make for good scenarios? Orieni assault on Drakh world is one, maybe. Go with default drakh fleet.

See Showndowns-8......

---- Rich
 
Here is what I have on updated Centauri ships by now:

Astur Assault Ship
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 6 Special Jumppoint, Shuttles 3
Turns: 1 / 45°
Troops 12 Craft --------------
Damage: 46/12 Crew 52/18

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Heavy Plasma Cannons F 15 12 AP DD
Light Ion Cannons F 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 4 Twin-Linked

Balcirax Attack Destroyer (Balciron Variant)
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 12 Special
Turn 2 Craft --------------
Troops 1
Damage: 18/6 Crew 18/8

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Tactical Laser F 15 4 Mini Beam
Heavy Plasma Cannon F 15 4 AP DD
Particle Projector S 12 4 SL TL
Particle Projector P 12 4 SL TL
Light Ion Cannons F 8 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 5 4 Twin-Linked

Balciron Destroyer
Hull 5 PL Skirmish
Speed 14 Special
Turn 2 / 45° Craft --------------
Troops 1
Damage: 18/6 Crew 18/8

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Medium Plasma Cannon F 8 2 AP T-L
Tactical Laser F 15 4 Beam
Light Ion Cannons F 8 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 2 Twin-Linked

Celerian Warcruiser
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 7 Special Jumppoint Anti Fighter 2
Turn 1 / 45° Craft
Troops 3 --------------
Damage: 32/8 Crew 30/8

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Assault Laser F 20 6 Mini Beam Precise
Heavy Plasma Cannon F 15 8 AP DD
Light Ion Cannons F 8 8 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 4 Twin-Linked

Centaurum Battleship
Hull 6 PL War
Speed 4 Special Jumppoint Command +2 Anti-Fighter 3 Lumbering
Troops 8 Craft 2 Flights Glaive
Damage: 75/22 Crew 82/24

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Assault Laser F 20 12 Mini Beam Precise
Heavy Plasma Cannon F 15 12 AP DD
Heavy Plasma Cannon P 15 8 AP DD
Heavy Plasma Cannon A 15 8 AP DD
Light Ion Cannons F 8 20 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 10 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 16 Twin-Linked

Falenna Garrison Ship
Hull 5 PL Patrol
Speed 10 Special
Troops 3 Craft 1 Flight Glaive, 1 Flight Breaching Pods
Turns 2 / 45°
Damage 10/4 Crew 12/5

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Plasma Cannon F 8 4 AP
Light Ion Cannons F 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 2 Twin-Linked
Particle Projector A 12 4 SL TL

Jenas Attack Frigate
Hull 4 PL 2 per Patrol Point
Speed 14 Special Dodge 5+, Atmospheric Agile
Troops - Craft --------------
Turns 2 / 90°
Damage 5 / 2 Crew 6 / 3

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Plasma Cannon F 8 2 AP
Light Ion Cannons T 8 3 Twin-Linked

Kasta Support Carrier (Celerian Variant)
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 7 Special Carrier 2
Troops 3 Craft 2 Flights Glaive, 2 Flights Phalan Assault
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 32/8 Crew 30/8

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Assault Laser F 20 4 Mini Beam Precise
Light Ion Cannons F 8 8 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 6 Twin-Linked


Kendari Fleet Scout
Hull 4 PL Skirmish
Speed 12 Special Jumppoint, Stealth 4+, Interceptor 2, Scout
Troops 3 Craft 1 Flight Glaives
Turns 2 / 45°
Damage 15 / 5 Crew 20 / 5

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Light Ion Cannons F 8 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 4 Twin-Linked

Leevan Escort Cruiser
Hull 5 PL Skirmish
Speed 10 Special Escort Antifighter 4
Troops 2 Craft --------------
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 16 / 6 Crew 20 / 6

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Particel Projector F 12 8 SL T-L
Light Ion Cannons F 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 4 Twin-Linked


Nalor Armored Cruiser (Celerian Variant)
Hull 6 PL Raid
Speed 7 Special
Turn 1 / 45° Craft --------------
Troops 3
Damage: 32/8 Crew 30/8

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Heavy Plasma Cannon F 15 8 AP Double Damage
Plasma Cannon F 8 8 AP T-L
Light Ion Cannons F 8 8 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 4 Twin-Linked
Particle Projector F 12 4 SL T-L
Particle Projector A 12 4 SL T-L


Navask Escort Destroyer
Hull 4 PL Skirmish
Speed 10 Special Interceptors 2 Anti Fighter 4 Escort
Troops 2 Craft --------------
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 16 / 6 Crew 20 / 6

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Light Ion Cannons F 8 8 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 4 Twin-Linked


Optine Battlecruiser
Hull 6 PL Battle
Speed 6 Special Jumppoint, Anti Fighter 2 Lumbering
Troops 4 Craft --------------
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 42 / 10 Crew 48 / 14

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Assault Laser F 20 12 Mini Beam Precise
Assault Laser A 20 4 Mini Beam Precise
Particel Projector F 12 12 T-L SL
Particel Projector P 12 8 T-L SL
Particel Projector S 12 8 T-L SL
Particel Projector A 12 8 T-L SL
Light Ion Cannons F 5 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 5 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 5 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 5 4 Twin-Linked

Orto Troop Transport
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 6 Special Shuttles 3, Interceptors 2
Troops 11 Craft 2 Breaching Pod Flights
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 28 / 16 Crew 30 / 14

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Particel Projector F 12 4 SL T-L
Particel Projector P 12 4 SL T-L
Particel Projector S 12 4 SL T-L
Particel Projector A 12 4 SL T-L
Light Ion Cannons F 5 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 5 2 Twin-Linked

Sakar Carrier
Hull 5 PL Battle
Speed 6 Special Jumppoint, Carrier 4 , Fleet Carrier, Command +1, Anti-Fighter 4 Lumbering
Troops 3 Craft 4 Flights Glaive, 4 Flights Phalan, 4 Flights Phalan M
Turns 1 / 45 °
Damage 38 / 18 Crew 42 / 18

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Light Ion Cannons F 5 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 5 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 5 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 5 4 Twin-Linked

Strela Light Jump Ship
Hull 6 PL Raid
Speed 8 Special Jumppoint
Troops 2 Craft 1 Flight Glaive
Turns 2 / 45°
Damage 34 / 6 Crew 30 / 4

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Assault Laser F 20 4 Mini Beam Precise
Assault Laser A 20 2 Mini Beam Precise
Light Ion Cannons f 5 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 5 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 5 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 5 2 Twin-Linked


Tacit Police Cruiser
Hull 5 PL Skrimish
Speed 12 Special Dodge 5+ Agile
Troops 2 Craft
Turns 2 / 45 °
Damage 20 / 8 Crew 18 / 5

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Tactical Laser F 10 2 Mini Beam
Light Ion Cannons F A 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P A 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S A 2 Twin-Linked


Talvan Attack Cruiser
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 8 Special Jumppoint
Troops 2 Craft -------------
Turns 2 / 45°
Damage 32 / 6 Crew 35 / 7

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Assault Laser F 20 4 Mini Beam Precise
Heavy Plasma Cannon F 15 8 AP DD
Light Ion Cannons F 5 8 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 5 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 5 6 Twin-Linked

Tatros Escort Frigate (Jenas Variant)
Hull 3 PL Patrol
Speed 16 Special Dodge 5+, Anti Fighter 2 Escort
Troops Craft --------------
Turns 2 / 90°
Damage 10 / 4 Crew 12 / 4

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Light Ion Cannons F 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons T 8 3 Twin-Linked

Tavor Siege Vessel
Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 6 Special Lumbering
Troops 2 Craft --------------
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 34/12 Crew 36/14

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Mass Driver F 18 8 SAP, SL, Triple Damage
Mass Driver F 18 8 SAP, SL, Triple Damage
Light Ion Cannons F 8 4 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 8 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 8 2 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 8 2 Twin-Linked


Valtor Strike Cruiser (Optine Variant)
Hull 6 PL Raid
Speed 6 Special Jumppoint, Anti Fighter 2, Lumbering
Troops 4 Craft --------------
Turns 1 / 45°
Damage 36/10 Crew 38/11

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Tactical Laser F 15 4 Mini Beam
Heavy Plasma Cannon F 15 8 AP, DD
Particle Projector F 12 4 SL, T-L
Particle Projector A 12 4 SL, T-L
Light Ion Cannons F 5 6 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons P 5 3 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons S 5 3 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannons A 5 6 Twin-Linked

Glaive Light Fighter PL Patrol (4 per Wing)
Hull 2 Dogfight: +2
Special: Auxilliary Craft, Dodge +2

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Plasma Blaster T 2 1 Weak

Phalan Assault Fighter PL Patrol (5 per Wing)
Hull 2 Dogfight: +1
Special: Auxilliary Craft, Dodge +3

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Plasma Blaster T 2 1 Weak
Plasma Gun T 2 2 AP

Phalan M Missile Fighter PL Patrol (4 per Wing)
Hull 2 Dogfight: +1
Special: Auxilliary Craft, Dodge +3

Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Plasma Blaster T 2 1 Weak
Fighter Missile T 4 2 AP

For the rest I have to look at the Showdowns and Variantes books.
 
Plasma Cannons
As noted before, possible swapping heavy plasma cannons for contemporary ion cannons to match the 2nd edition third age Centauri fleet? Just an idea.




Patrol
Falenna Garrison Ship
Hmm.....This is yet another Balciron variant and should probably be another skirmish ship, with the same durability as the Balciron.
Swapping the tactical laser for a fighter flight and one plasma cannon for a breaching pod and some troops (and possibly a shuttle?) then makes sense. Also - maintain consistency in traits between plasma cannons - we don't need more than two versions of the plasma cannon (heavy and normal) in the fleet list! AP attack dice are fine, but then keep that the same for the Balciron as well. Once again, Particle projectors are fine if they're a major part of the ships armament (like the Optine) but odd slow-loading secondaries are just going to be annoying to keep track of! Turn them into Light Ion Cannons.

Jenas Attack Frigate
Agile, fragile, and virtually garuanteed to die horribly if someone points a gun at it! Mind you, in something not all that bigger than a superheavy fighter, is that really surprising?

Tatros Escort Frigate
More or less fine. Given beam and mini-beam mechanics, though, avoid hull 3 on ships. I don't think it's too out of place to give it the same armour as the Jenas (since it shares the hull).

Glaive Light Fighter
I'm happy to go change my stats instead if you'd prefer, but the Glaive should be no better a dogfighter than the Templar - neither was inherantly superior, and the Centauri already have easier access to Fleet Carrier than the Orieni (Battle/Raid level Sakar versus War level Paragon). Hull 2 is unnecessary - this isn't an even more extreme Razik; it's quite well armoured and pretty much as well armed as the Templar (the plasma blasters are a twin linked mount, for starters). I'd take the Templar statline, make the guns weak, and add one or two per wing.

Phalan Assault Fighter & Phalan M Missile Fighter
I'd just have one type of assault fighter - I'd keep the name 'Phalan assault fighter' but given the way fighters and flak now interact i'd keep the missile fighter statline. A gunship assault fighter is basically dead meat - especially one that's hull 2! Up-armour them; no assault fighter lacks hull 4 and most have hull 5, but drop the +1 dogfight. These are heavy attack fighters and there are comments about how often Phalans got carved up wholesale by Orieni fighter screens (which is why the Centauri had pretty much given up on the concept by the Third Age), so giving them a high dogfight seems wrong. Make sure they're the same 'wing size' as the Glaive to allow free swaps.




Skirmish
Balcirax Attack Destroyer & Balciron Destroyer
Tricky to stat without making the Balcirax a Balciron-but-better (since that's essentially what it is!). Given that the Balciron carries multiple lighter plasma cannons to the Balcirax's single heavy weapon, more attack dice would help. Also, whilst I like the Particle projectors on some ships, a fast gunship won't be firing broadsides several turns in a row, and their longer range also makes them better - I'd be tempted (for simplicity and continuity) to stick with the same secondary weapons armament of light ion cannons for both, or else concentrate the Balcirax's slow-loading armament into a big forwards battery (since the one-pass-kill was the point of the design).

Kendari Fleet Scout
Given that we're two hundred years pre-third age, stealth 4+ - indeed any stealth - seems overly advanced. More to the point, the Kendari needs the Escort trait - it fulfills the dual role of Maximus and Corvan, and needs Escort to be able to lend interceptors to its wingmates. I'd drop the stealth and give the hull the durability of the Vorchan hull it resembles.

Leevan Escort Cruiser
The other half of the Escort wing. Particle Projectors form a main armament, so keep them.

Navask Escort Destroyer
I'm not criticising you, it's a fair statline. The fleet, however, doesn't need both the Leevan and the Navask when both are so similar. Might I suggest we take the current Centauri 'escort destroyer' designaton (a la Sullust) and use that? A ship gunned up with assault lasers and not much else?

Tacit Police Cruiser
This suffers compared to a Balciron/Balcirax in pretty much every way, and (especially if moving the Falenna up) Skirmish priority is getting a bit 'busy'. Tone down and move to Patrol? Given its weak armament it wouldn't take much!

Raid
Astur Assault Ship
Good.

Celerian Warcruiser
Good

Kasta Support Carrier
Swapping the Heavy Plasma Cannons for some integral fighter cover is fine but personally I'd stick with Glaive light fighters on all ships and add in the option to swap them for Phalan assault fighters. The Centauri are supposed to have got less and less focused on assault fighters as the Phalans got torn up time and again by Orieni fighter screens. Besides which, having a proscriptive mix of fighter types seems wrong on any ship with a proper fighter hangar (rather than cobra racks or external mounts)

I thought the Kasta only had space for 12 fighters, by the way, which would be 2 flights. Could be wrong, though, but not many Centauri ships outside proper carriers (which the Kasta isn't) tend to have that many.

Nalor Armored Cruiser
The other Celerian variant. Assault Laser = Hull 6 and additional Plasma Cannons is a fair enough trade. Again, up the plasma cannon attack dice and drop twin-linked for consistency.
Particle projectors are little more than an irrelevance, so fold them into the ion cannons - although they do remind me - the Celerian had Anti-fighter 2, what happend to it? I can understand the Kasta not needing flak (it has a fighter wing) but the Nalor certainly does; it's a close-ranged gunship.

Orto Troop Transport
Astur/Orto is like Leevan/Navask. We could modify one to be a boarding craft with breaching pods and the other to be an atmospheric troop-dumper, but personally I'd advocate just picking one and dropping it.

Strela Light Jump Ship
Fine. A more agile and heavily armoured but brittle alternative to the Celerian.

Talvan Attack Cruiser
I'm not a Centurion-class. Honest, guv. Good statline, though.

Tavor Siege Vessel
Unlikely to ever see service except in scenarios - but a decent ship.


Battle
Optine Battlecruiser
Good

Sakar Carrier
The Sakar shouldn't be better than the Balvarin, its successor. The idea that two hundred years of technology advances halved the ship's launch capacity seems badly out of place, and the Balvarin is a tougher ship despite being a priority level lower. I'd drop it to Carrier 2, and up its hit points, and put it in Raid priority. Fleet Carrier I suppose should be in the fleet somewhere, but the Sakar isn't a Flagship like the Optine or Centaurum, so Command +1 seems out of place - I'd expect it to be on the Optine rather than the Sakar. The extra anti-fighter is fine, and I'd gun up the ship's light ion cannons up to balance out the firepower. Technically the texts says 48 fighters, which should be 8 flights not twelve, but the Sakar has to score one over the Balvarin somewhere to be at the same priority and its fighters are inferior. Once again, I'd say Glaive by default with the option to swap.

Valtor Strike Cruiser
This statline is basically a much weaker version of the Optine - I honestly can't see why you'd pick it as is. I thought the Valtor was another close range plasma-happy ship, although I could be remembering wrong. Either way, it defintely needs gunning up compared to its parent hull. For the sake of simplicity stick with assault lasers (assault laser = big ship, tactical laser = small ship) and get rid of the particle projectors - unlike the big battery of the Optine it's not worth keeping track of them when they've only got 4 attack dice.

EDIT: I thought it was. This beast of a ship packs twice as many heavy plasma cannons forwards as the Centaurum.....



War
Centaurum Battleship
Good. If I do put the House Fleets rule into being, remind me if I don't specifically state that it's topped out at battle priority - no Noble House (Royal Family aside) should have access to a Centaurum-class ship.
 
Allot of that informaiton was in Showdowns-8 and Variants-6. They include the following ships and Showdown-8 had scenarios

Love to have a look, but richbax.com is claiming that it doesn't exist at the moment. Is it up on the web anywhere else?
 
Love to have a look, but richbax.com is claiming that it doesn't exist at the moment. Is it up on the web anywhere else?

Just went there and checked....both downloaded without problem. Send me a private message with an email address and I'll email them to you if you continue to have problems.

--- Rich
 
locarno24 said:
Sakar Carrier
The Sakar shouldn't be better than the Balvarin, its successor. The idea that two hundred years of technology advances halved the ship's launch capacity seems badly out of place, and the Balvarin is a tougher ship despite being a priority level lower.

When we originally developed the Sakar and the history of the Centauri it was intended to create a justification as to why the Centauri had not gone to heavy fighters like everyone else and instead relied on medium and light fighters. We therefore created a 21st centuray Centauri who were more into heavy fighters and such, much like the races of the Babylon 5 era. However, their big war involved a race who had a lot of quality anti-fighter systems (railguns and the excellent Templar) and the Centauri strike fighters of the time weren't that good. The result was that their fighter strike groups were pretty much smashed flat. In addition, the Orieni used the devestating HK's which forced the Centauri to use their fighters more and more as interceptors.

When the war ended, the Centauri were left with the feeling that strike fighters weren't worth it and instead concetrated on interceptors. Without the need for a strike element the later Centauri Carriers needed fewer fighters and thus got smaller than their Orieni war brethern.

Fast forward to Babylon 5 era and the Centauri are starting to realize that their behind the curve on fighters and that the strike fighters is a valid option. But rather than quickly dump out a new larger fighter they go with the high end, high tech medium strike fighter, the Rutartian backed up by come qucik fix modifications to the existing fighter force. I imagine that as the Centauri moved further into the ISA era they would have created a heavy fighter of their own and likely a intercetor version of their Rutartian for escort duties, since what good is it to escort stealth strike fighters with non-stealth escort fighters.

You see....developing history is alot more in depth than just creating less advanced technology and wrapping ships around them. You have to answer the questions of why the advanced technology advanced the way it did and why ships of today are the way they compared to ships way back when.

--- Rich
 
I'll happily agree with you there - see my comment about the dogfighting ability of the Phalan being a touch high.

I have no problem with the older ships being designed to do a different job, and hence being better in certain areas than contemporary Centauri ship but the point I was making is that the Sakar and the Balvarin do the same job (more or less) - a support carrier with a 48-fighter wing, but the Balvarin is worse at it.



The fact that a Balvarin is intended to carry interceptor cover rather than stike wings may change its concept of operations but it doesn't alter the carrier ship - if anything it should simplify things as it no longer needs to carry large amounts of attack craft ordnance.
It has two large launch bays, with hangar space for 48 fighters, effectively the same as the Sakar, but for some reason launches at half the rate despite two hundred years of development. Its main tactical difference is the operation of its fighters - the Sakar as shown in the datasheet isn't an agressive carrier (like, say, the Kasta) that carries its fighters directly into the centre of the battle - the Battlecruiser line is still there to take most of the fighting with carriers behind.

As a result, I'm not sure how much different the ship itself would be. Access to an assault fighter automatically changes the ships role, but it has no need to be more heavily armed, and certainly (given its statline) has no reason to be a priority point more expensive. As it is it's unconscionably fragile for a battle-level ship.



My thoughts - along a similar subject, so I'l mention them now. Correct if wrong:

1) If a battleship class vessel was not present, where would an RN admiral be commanding from? The Balvarin has Command +1 but that's because it's explicitely stated in its background that it has a superb command deck and is designed for the role - again, as an interceptor carrier it would only operate in fleet actions as it lacks the firepower to go and operate solo. No such claim is made for the Sakar that I'm aware of, and with the prestige being a big thing to the Centauri I'd have expected the Admiral on a battlecruiser to allow for personal 'kills' rather than a rather dispersed fighter wing - hence the fittings to act as a low-capability flagship - and the lower-level Command bonus that results - being on one or other of the Valtor/Optine hulls.


2) A house military fleet shouldn't have Centaurum-class ships as they were supposed to be the Emperor's way to overawe any unruly house, and probably shouldn't get Talvans as they were a new, advanced ship that was in the process of replacing the Celerian - they were 'fobbed off' with the Strela instead. I'm trying to figure out if there's anything else that a house military wouldn't have access to.
Possibly the big troopships as well, but then the fleet
 
As I have no stats of the Orieni I could not balance my ships against theirs :wink: .

My ships by now show what WCR tells, I agree that there have to be som changes by now as the stats are only V0.1
 
Sorry I've been away for so long...


The work put in here has been pretty solid!


Is there anyone who would be willing to host a v1 of a PDF compiling what has been done so far?
 
I'm working my way through putting a proper set of fleet .pdfs and scenarios together (based off the original ones), with a few extra ship types from the various add-on publications to cover the era's raiders and a few variant ships.

Aiming to put together 5 lists:

~Centauri Royal Navy
~House Militia
~Hand of the Blessed
~Strike Force (also including all the non-standard fleet stuff like explorers)
~Raiders

and a few other ship types that are worth it for scenarios (the Orieni using the Uusuth fleet as target practice, for example).
 
Would it be worth having a Drazi fleet list as well as they are active participants in the war?

Be really nice to have some good narrative bits in - I love this sort of fluff - its in B5 Wars and sad that its not in any ACTA books.

Talonspiritcat is writing a really good novel which would provide some good extracts if he was willing.

:D
 
Da Boss said:
Would it be worth having a Drazi fleet list as well as they are active participants in the war?

Be really nice to have some good narrative bits in - I love this sort of fluff - its in B5 Wars and sad that its not in any ACTA books.

Talonspiritcat is writing a really good novel which would provide some good extracts if he was willing.

:D




Oh, he's very willing. 8)

On that note, the First Battle of Lukantha should be posting sometime this weekend....
 
Abbai, possibly. But the Drazi not so much - the raiders who started the whole shooting match off were Drazi, and they're the raider list I was talking about (with some Centauri privateer options post the war starting)
 
That's the plan.
The first one - Hand of the Blessed and Strike Force - is pretty much done. I'll get started on the Centauri one later this week.
 
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