Vincent's Zamboula

[VincentDarlage]

I never once suggested that Zamboula had a Roman like culture. I simply stated that in antiquity, as in the modern age, there were examples to back both our positions. Kintire and Spectator both (seem to) back the position that Rome sometimes did take enemy warriors prisoner for the arena but you seem to be simply dismissing that.

I dismiss it because Roman practice is inapplicable to Zamboula/Turan. Perhaps I could have been clearer on that. The races applicable to this region would starve slaves for the first several days by giving them meagre meals (at best) to weaken them, chain them around their necks to a peg at night so the slightest move rattles the chains and alerts the guards to beat them into submission, and so on. Male slaves in those cultures were always chained at night, no matter how docile they seem to be, unless they grew up in slavery. Usually friends and families had a brief window to ransom their kith and kin, after which the unransomed ones are sold at auction.

Typically, in cultures appropriate to Zamboula/Turan, the first time a slave attempted escape they would have a whipping or an ear or minor body part cut cut off. But should a slave be suspected a second time of the intention of running away, he is nailed by an ear to a post or to the house door, and left for three days without food or drink, exposed to the jibes of passers-by. Few survive this, as they enter on the ordeal with frames already exhausted by toil and hardship.

I think its safe to say that Turan's culture was not like that of Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany either.I believe that you are being a little facetious there.

I agree, but I am not the one who brought up the Nazis. Of course, it is inevitable. No matter what the internet conversation, if it goes on long enough, someone is going to bring up the Nazis. I think it is a rule. Actually, I think it is called Godwin's law, or something like that.

Rolling the bones, seeing what life(and me) throws at them.Very Conanesque dont you think?

Yes. I still think it has the potential to be a boring plot if one isn't careful, but YMMV. But if you make the PCs subject to the treatment typical of a real slave in that culture (and not subject to the typical fantasy treatment of a slave), you might be able to make something of it, as PCs would barely be able to fight even if they did escape.

 

[VincentDarlage]

I am not sure that I get your point about my 'Big Bully Hook' and your experiences with the 'Black Stone of Kovag Re'. (I didn't rate that scenario very highly either.)

I am just saying that enslaving PCs rarely works out and is cliched. That is the point. In "Black Stones of Kovag Re" the whole adventure hinges on the PCs dutifully accepting their enslavement and doing as they are told - and that isn't likely to happen (well, apparently Spectator did it that way, but none of my players, past or present, would).

In 'Big Bully' my characters arrive at the village. The big bully makes the appropriate threatening noises to maintain his position and the characters either fall for his bluff or take him to task. Its pretty straightforward and it isnt going to win any awards but what exactly wouldn't your players accept as realistic?

Sure, but since we were discussing slavery, I presumed your big bully was going to enslave the PCs. I am just saying that anyone, a bully or not, approaching an armed party as obviously deadly as most gaming parties with the intent to enslave them is an idiot. The PCs will look at the person the way Superman looks at a supervillian who comes after him with a regular handgun.

Now, if the PCs are lost in the desert, and are weak and in no way a danger... sure, nomads are going to pick them up, disarm them, and sell them - and make sure they never fully heal or recover if they are male and look really strong. Likewise, if the PCs are almost dead or are severely worn out after a long campaign and are taken as prisoners of war - same thing. But for slavers to attack an armed party (who are not weak with fatigue, hunger or other problems) with the intent of taking them as slaves - not going to happen unless the slavers are mentally handicapped.

 

[tarkhan bey]

Vincent, I have been posting on this board since 2004. I have honestly 'never' seen anyone "bringing up the Nazi's". :shock:
If I had known that this was some sort of thing that regularly happened, believe me, I never would have mentioned it. :lol:
I think we have to remember that we are talking about peoples whose culture might be analogous to the Turanians,not peoples whose culture is an exact carbon copy of the Turanians.
The Turanians are fictional and we are comparing them to actual existant cultures.Even from your own work, it appears that you modelled them on a mix of Sassanid Persians, Ottoman and Seljuk Turks. They are a'melange' of the most interesting things about those races.
As there does not seem to be a direct analogy to Imperial Rome in the Hyborian Age, I have no problem with allowing another aggressively Imperial nation to port in certain Roman practices. Its clear, however, that you have. :roll:
As you say,YMMV.
Anyhow, I don't intend to have my PC's enslaved(thats been done to death). Quite the opposite actually. :evil:

 

[VincentDarlage]

Vincent, I have been posting on this board since 2004. I have honestly 'never' seen anyone "bringing up the Nazi's". :shock:

LOL. I was joking and not making a serious criticism.

If I had known that this was some sort of thing that regularly happened, believe me, I never would have mentioned it. :lol:

LOL. Look up Godwin's Law.

Anyhow, I don't intend to have my PC's enslaved(thats been done to death).

And THAT is my whole point. It has indeed been done to death... and it usually has been done badly.

 

[tarkhan bey]

OK, there are two things that we were discussing. The first was the slavery thing. I think that has been resolved at least 90% of the way. I accept that it is unlikely that vast hordes of, potentially dangerous, Darfari are going to be travelling up the slave road from Sukhmet. I believe that you have also accepted that exceptions exist and, although you doubt the wisdom of my Turanian Officers, you accept that greed may have blinded them to the perils of transporting some of these barbarians for the fighting pits of Shadizar.Some might also be destined for the bedchambers of debauched Zamorian noblemen/women(these would probably not be Darfari's, but then with Zamorians-you just never know :? ).
The second is the NPC thing. Thats where Big Bully comes in. From what you are saying, I take your position to be that a villain is not worth having if he isn't a man with a plan. Otherwise, he is just a henchman.
My proposition is that some villains are simply bullies with no more plan than where their next meal, drink or victim is coming from. Some people are stupid thugs and(coming from Belfast) I have encountered more than a few of them in real life.
As GM's we are like actors and each character needs a different persona so that the whole thing doesn't become stale.

 

[tarkhan bey]

Just looked up Godwins Law.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The second is the NPC thing. Thats where Big Bully comes in. From what you are saying, I take your position to be that a villain is not worth having if he isn't a man with a plan. Otherwise, he is just a henchman.

No, I agree with you, so that isn't what I was saying at all. I am saying that a stupid slaver doesn't last long and isn't an interesting or realistic villain. I made the mistake of not realizing you had switched subjects off of slavery.

Sure, dumb brutes make fine villains. Certainly the desert riders of "Drums of Tombalku" fall into that category. They just don't last long when in charge of major slaving operations if they are so mentally challenged as to try and enslave a GROUP of PCs who are not in dire straits already. That is the entirety of what I am saying about NPC slavers, big bully or otherwise. I am not in any way hinting or intimating that dumb NPCs shouldn't be played in general, just that in that very specific circumstance, the villain wouldn't be interesting and/or realistic.

 

[tarkhan bey]

We have reached an accord.

 

[tarkhan bey]

Hi Vincent, I have taken a look at some of the NPC's that Thulsa is hosting over on his site. Excellent stuff, once again.
I was wondering if you would mind posting the Racial description and traits you used for the Zamboulan race?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Those stats are in the Player's Guide to the Hyborian Age on page 23. I am not sure if Mongoose would want me to reprint them here.

 

[tarkhan bey]

I didn't realise that it was already available. It is my intent to purchase this, along with several other books, at the end of the month.