Vilani Weddings?

[pyrrhic victory]

Folks,

I'm planning to start my next campaign with the players meeting at a traditional Vilani wedding. Problem is, I can't find anything like that in the background stuff I have. I'm pretty sure that it would revolve around the husband having access to a Shugilii to properly prepare food and some ritual demonstration of such. Or should it be the bride's family that provides the Shugilii? Are Vilani patriarchal or matriarchal in family organization? Any ideas?

Thanks!
Ed

 

[aspqrz]

I'm planning to start my next campaign with the players meeting at a traditional Vilani wedding. Problem is, I can't find anything like that in the background stuff I have. I'm pretty sure that it would revolve around the husband having access to a Shugilii to properly prepare food and some ritual demonstration of such. Or should it be the bride's family that provides the Shugilii? Are Vilani patriarchal or matriarchal in family organization? Any ideas?

If you believe the way Traveller's OTU background has been written over the years, there is no major imperial religion ... though some backward planets seem to have authoritarian sects of unspecified sorts (probably more cults, as the FBI would define them) ... it's not just the Vilani, of course, but the Solomani ...

Frankly, if Christianity can survive and grow, despite scientific revolutions, for 2000 years to date, Judaism for at least 3500 years, and Islam for 1400 odd, to just mention the middle eastern ones most of us are familiar with, they are going to still be around ... and play a big part in society ... in the 3I as well.

Yes. Yes. I know. "Sensitive issues" and all that. We don't want the book burning crazies to notice our hobby ... but, frankly (except in the US, perhaps, where such crazies may be more prevalent than here in Oz), I haven't noticed many of such over the years, and they have had effectively no influence or impact whatsoever on local gaming ... so I don't think the concerns are valid, if that's the reason.

The implication, and I think its only that, is that the Vilani Imperium (the First Imperium) was ruled only by Emperors (that is, males) ... though, since they were "shadow emperors" who knows? ... yet the RoM influenced 3I has had Empresses ... so I'd tend to go with the "Extreme Vilani Cultural Conservatism" school and assume for such important basic social rituals as marriage they are still patriarchal.

YMMV.

Phil

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Let your players know right from the beginning that They Are Not In Kansas Anymore, Toto.


Have the Vilani family attend a traditional Church of Elvis wedding since they converted to that church during the Second Imperium.

(Oh, IIRC they have an alternate form listed in BITS 101 Religions called the Church of Revlis Repsley. Also good.)

 

[steffworthington]

"Weddings" throughout human history have always been contracts. It's only in our so-called enlightened times that they have involved love, affection or togetherness.

They have always tended to reflect social mores, an exchange of titles or property, or social climbing.

The best way to start is to ask yourself, "who are the Vilani and what do they care about?"

I myself imagine Vilani weddings to be ritualistic affairs involving some sort of ancestor recognition, the "priest" to be an observer of highly stratified ceremony and making sure it is the same as wedding ceremonies a thousand years ago. Basically look at what the families, bueaux, or clan wouldve gained in the past and 'soften' it for 'modern' attitudes. While they Vilani may not have a religion they will still have the social 'glue' that is formalised ceremony, maybe in a similar way to Shinto, buddhism, or weddings in a communist or humanist society.

Just my opinion.

 

[klingsor]

Excellent advice from steffworthington there, well worth stealing. This is not something I had considered myself but after what he suggested I am thinking about it.

If you want more detail have a nose around and see what you can find for a human culture and steal it. If you stay away from the usual Abrahamic religions they should not catch on. As ever Wikipedia is probably a good starting place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrige

Traditional Japanese weddings might be your best bet. Just remember to file off the serial numbers.

 

[kristof65]

klingsor and steffworthington have some excellent advice there.

Rituals abound in every society, they aren't just tied to religion. All you really need to do is take a few ideas that fit your idea of Vilani culture, and tie them together. Using an existing ceremony from some real world culture/society/group - not necessarily a wedding ceremony either - and bend it until it's source isn't recognizable any more. Look to the Boy/Girl Scouts, Masons, Elk Lodge, Chamber of Commerce meetings, etc - basically anywhere people gather with some sort of formal organization for ideas.

Things to consider/ideas to make things different:

- in most western culture, it's common for a couple to stand on an alter before a group of witnesses and take their vows to each other. This doesn't have to be the case. Things could be turned around - perhaps the couple has to make individual vows to each of their intended spouses family members, and doing something ritualistic like washing their feet.

- clothing/colors/gifts/etc could all have different meanings. Take Star Trek and their Betazed weddings - it's customary for all in attendance to be nude. Here in the states, it's considered bad luck to give knives as a wedding gift - perhaps it's expected in another culture.

- given that a lot of weddings in the past were forced affairs, maybe the wedding is more like a hunt - the bride and/or groom are let loose in a given region of wilderness, and they are "hunted" by their intended, or the family(ies). This ritual could still be practiced making a wedding more like a hunting trip where the "prey" is expected to give a good fight, or it could be highly formalized into a dance they have to perform, making it more like an opera for spectators.

-

 

[rust]

- given that a lot of weddings in the past were forced affairs, maybe the wedding is more like a hunt - the bride and/or groom are let loose in a given region of wilderness, and they are "hunted" by their intended, or the family(ies).

Thank you very much for an excellent idea for my setting !

 

[klingsor]

For the Vilani ritual, ceremony and precedent is all. Nothing new, so the ritual is OLD. The familys will be hugely important, more so even than the individuals involved. For some reason I am seeing veils, lots of veils and hangings. With the Vilani the three bureaus might even be involved - three parts to the ritual, performed by a representative of each. They might even do mass weddings, minimising the cost to each family and making it a more public thing - and now I am thinking Moonie mass weddings here. Maybe it only happens one day a year.

Think of something good, that makes the PCs go 'wow' and make sure it is consistent - then tell us so we can steal it, that after all is sometimes how canon begins!

 

[kristof65]

Thank you very much for an excellent idea for my setting !

No problem. I just came up with it as I was typing my response to this thread, but I've already decided which culture in my fantasy campaign gets it, too.

 

[klingsor]

Is it just me or is this the most useful, interesting and amiable topic this forum has generated in a while?

Presumably because it does not touch on anyone's preconceptions.

Already it has me wondering how the Church of the Solar Divinity perform marriages. This meme is infectious.

 

[pyrrhic victory]

Thanks to all for the excellent advice. I agree that this has proven to be an excellent and productive thread.

I wanted to have the PCs meet somewhere other than the hoary old Starport bar, so thought that meeting at the wedding of a mutual friend might be a good replacement. It turns out their friend is a generic imperial female marrying a naval officer of Vilani descent whose mother INSISTS on having a traditional Vilani wedding for her son. The PCs are there to pad out the size of their friends "family", and so get introduced to something culturally different, and have a NPC there to explain what's going on during the rehearsal.

My initial idea is to have ornate decoration and dress for the bride. The families are seated at long tables facing each other, with intricate rules about who sits where. There's a small table between the long tables where the bride and groom sit. The ceremony is jointly presided by a member of the nobility, a Shugilii from the family of the husband, and a wedding organizer (Merchant) (note - come up with Vilani name for this) selected by the family of the wife. Lots of formalized questions and answers in Vilani from the presiding officials to both families. The wedding organizer then verifies the Dowery/Dower/Bride Price and declares it sufficient (Have to figure out which way to go with this - initial thought is dowery that is legal property of the wife, with % going to wedding organizer) The Shugilii then serves a ritual dish to husband and wife with mutual declarations of "this is fit and edible" serving as a replacement for "I do". The noble then declares the couple joined, followed by a ritual procession out.

Thoughts?

Ed

 

[rust]

Sounds good to me, but I would look for a way to include the PCs in
the event.

Perhaps the Shugilii could hand the ritual dish to the husband, who
would offer it to the bride, who may only accept it after some mem-
bers of her family (the PCs) have verified that it is edible and safe,
and once that has been done the bride accepts the dish, and with
it the marriage ?

Just an idea to give the PCs a minor ceremonial task in the event ...

 

[pyrrhic victory]

Perhaps the Shugilii could hand the ritual dish to the husband, who
would offer it to the bride, who may only accept it after some mem-
bers of her family (the PCs) have verified that it is edible and safe,
and once that has been done the bride accepts the dish, and with
it the marriage ?

I like it. Also lets me emphasize just how bad traditional Vilani cooking tastes..... :twisted:

 

[steffworthington]

Here in the states, it's considered bad luck to give knives as a wedding gift - perhaps it's expected in another culture.

In my culture (Welsh) it's intricately and artistically carved wooden spoons not rings that are given as a betrothal token.

Also lets me emphasize just how bad traditional Vilani cooking tastes.....

Hiver sausages anyone??


Also, steer away from anything that costs too much or involves anything that takes TOO much preparation or food.... these will be the first things to disappear over the course of a thousand years when times get hard.. as soon as you HAVE to do without them... you'll realise you didnt need them.

 

[StephenT]

Remember that traditional Vilani society is organised communally, with extended families slotted into a heirarchy rather than Western-style "husband, wife and two kids" nuclear families. Their marriage ceremony will not be about two individuals forming a union with each other; it's about one partner joining an entire kinship group and being accepted by all its members.

Given that Vilani society is presented as being very egalitarian as regards gender, I'm guessing that there's an equal chance of the man joining the woman's family or vice-versa. (Substitute 'other man' or 'other woman' into that sentence if desired.)

This would be the subject of negotiation between the two families... maybe the marriage arranger hired by family 'A' has to approach the noble responsible for family 'B' to ask permission for person BB to leave that family and join family 'A', and Noble B will ask for compensation for their loss of earnings based on BB's productive value to the family.

 

[steffworthington]

Remember that traditional Vilani society is organised communally, with extended families slotted into a heirarchy rather than Western-style "husband, wife and two kids" nuclear families. Their marriage ceremony will not be about two individuals forming a union with each other; it's about one partner joining an entire kinship group and being accepted by all its members.

Given that Vilani society is presented as being very egalitarian as regards gender, I'm guessing that there's an equal chance of the man joining the woman's family or vice-versa. (Substitute 'other man' or 'other woman' into that sentence if desired.)

This would be the subject of negotiation between the two families... maybe the marriage arranger hired by family 'A' has to approach the noble responsible for family 'B' to ask permission for person BB to leave that family and join family 'A', and Noble B will ask for compensation for their loss of earnings based on BB's productive value to the family.

Great info! Opens up all sorts of rpg possibilities. Montagues & Capulets?

 

[Emperor Herdan]

Don't forget that the wedding could be the start/end point of a business merger. Two businesses may be combining to produce a third spin-off company with various assets from each family.

Rats... work calls...gotta go

Okay Happy Hogmonay (New Years Eve for those non-Scots...)

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[qstor]

I saw this article on the JTAS "Seven Marriage Customs for Lovestruck Travellers, by Michael Brown - 5-11-2004" Its in the archives. You have to sign up on sjgames.com/zines to be a member.

That might help for your game.

Mike

 

[alex_greene]

I have never seen this issue addressed in Traveller before, ever.