ProfGrizzlyJon
Emperor Mongoose
So, has anyone mentioned the 40K connection to “scything claws” as errata?
VHB 2026 Errata
- Thread starter Geir
- Start date
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
In playtesting, I made a carnifex bio-vehicle and ran that against my players. Does that count?
ProfGrizzlyJon
Emperor Mongoose
I would be fascinated by those stats.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
For the love of Cleon can we get the scaling of the three construction books redefined.
None of this slots are 3 litres except when they are 54, a "space" is half of the real "space".
What is wrong with the litre, the cubic metre and the displacement ton for units?
Then maybe, just maybe, you can start scaling the weapons between the various sizes.
A space is 3.5 cubic metres, is that for the whole "space" (ie the 2 spaces but we only allocate 1). So should a space be 1.75 cubic metres, Is it 4 spaces per ton or 8 spaces per ton with 4 of them unusable in the design sequence? How dos this map to the scaling we were given in Robots...
This is all so avoidable.
Decide on the scaling and fix it across the three books, because at the moment it is a confusing mess of abstract units that have variable value depending on context of use.
None of this slots are 3 litres except when they are 54, a "space" is half of the real "space".
What is wrong with the litre, the cubic metre and the displacement ton for units?
Then maybe, just maybe, you can start scaling the weapons between the various sizes.
Take this ^ example.
A space is 3.5 cubic metres, is that for the whole "space" (ie the 2 spaces but we only allocate 1). So should a space be 1.75 cubic metres, Is it 4 spaces per ton or 8 spaces per ton with 4 of them unusable in the design sequence? How dos this map to the scaling we were given in Robots...
This is all so avoidable.
Decide on the scaling and fix it across the three books, because at the moment it is a confusing mess of abstract units that have variable value depending on context of use.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
It seems pretty simple to me. You are declaring the usable spaces. The infrastructure to move it is equal to that. If you allocate cargo, four spaces is a dton. To store a 200 space vehicle you need 50 dtons for the customizable part and 50dtons for the standard fuel, chassis and locomotion.
Certain locomotive choices either use additional space or give you access to additional space freed up in infrastructure. The declared usable space plus infrastructure space is unchanged.
Is that preferable to keeping track of fractions? Each person needs a space or each person needs 0.25 dton.
Certain locomotive choices either use additional space or give you access to additional space freed up in infrastructure. The declared usable space plus infrastructure space is unchanged.
Is that preferable to keeping track of fractions? Each person needs a space or each person needs 0.25 dton.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
Please dear GOD just do everything in displacement liters/tons and have the total space be the listed value. Then you assign a % value of the vehicle used for infrastructure based on TL, engine, motivation type, frame and whatever other infrastructure and construction type you don't want to have explicit rules/equipment for.
This is one of my complaints about robots as well. The motive type, TL, power, all of stuff that gets put into that invisible 50% that is added on shouldn't always be 50% and the robot size should be its total size, not its usable volume.
Why are these not like ships, with the whole volume listed and then used for % based as well as explicitly sized equipment, and why can't they use interchangeable equipment? it would be so much easier and more understandable done that way as well as more flexible.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Well, there's ergonomics, and three dimensions.
Libris
Cosmic Mongoose
The “explanation” on page 25 is not really that helpful. A much less specific description would simply state that vehicles are actually bigger than the useful spaces due to engines, fuel, transmission, ground clearance, and a myriad of other design requirements.
It would have been much easier to say that the vehicle shipping size is the space it takes up as cargo and is based on its type as per pages 28 - 34.
I’d initially stated that most ships use only the vehicle shipping size for docking space but further reading show that this is not the case and it appears that the assumption is that vehicles do require that extra 10% with only older designs using the exact vehicle shipping size. Incidentally, docking bays for vehicles seem ridiculously expensive compared to the vehicle itself - your air-raft is MCr 0.25 but your docking space is 5 times that! Ouch!
It would have been much easier to say that the vehicle shipping size is the space it takes up as cargo and is based on its type as per pages 28 - 34.
I’d initially stated that most ships use only the vehicle shipping size for docking space but further reading show that this is not the case and it appears that the assumption is that vehicles do require that extra 10% with only older designs using the exact vehicle shipping size. Incidentally, docking bays for vehicles seem ridiculously expensive compared to the vehicle itself - your air-raft is MCr 0.25 but your docking space is 5 times that! Ouch!
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Just a simple question.
How many "real" spaces per displacement ton.
Not the imaginary spaces that don't count towards vehicle construction.
The current rules state 4 spaces per ton.
But half those spaces are not usable for construction.
So one displacement ton is 4 spaces, 2 usable, 2 not usable
Or is it a 4 "construction" space vehicle space per ton, in which case there are 8 spaces in a displacement ton.
Which is it, because at the moment I have no idea.
How many "real" spaces per displacement ton.
Not the imaginary spaces that don't count towards vehicle construction.
The current rules state 4 spaces per ton.
But half those spaces are not usable for construction.
So one displacement ton is 4 spaces, 2 usable, 2 not usable
Or is it a 4 "construction" space vehicle space per ton, in which case there are 8 spaces in a displacement ton.
Which is it, because at the moment I have no idea.
Libris
Cosmic Mongoose
Apologies if this comes across like mansplaning but I’m trying to get my head around it as well.
Based on page 25 there are theoretically 4 spaces per dTon and this looks to have confused the crap out of everyone - me included.
I have come to the realisation that the actual number doesn’t matter - the only thing that matters is initial useable space per dTon and that is listed on pages 28-34 for each vehicle type.
It would have been sufficient to say that vehicles for the most part and by dint of their strange shapes, fuel tanks, and various other design features, like wings for example, take up more than their initial useable space and due to that you can only fit 2 useable spaces in a dTon, or 1 useable space if it’s an aeroplane, or 10 if it’s a squished airship.
I use the term “initial” as options like “Slower” or “Reduced fuel” can give bonus useable space(s) that do not affect the outside dimension. These extra spaces haven’t magically appeared but are a result of reducing engine size and/or fuel capacity. If an initial design called for a V8 to get the standard performance but you opted for a V6 then it would be slower but have more internal space. Similarly, if you reduced the size of the fuel tank you would reduce the range but you could use the space saved for more cargo or passengers.
This only really works when designing something from scratch - replacing you ‘65 Ford Mustang V8 with a V6 or, god forbid a straight 4 is not only a crime against humanity, it’s pointless as the engine bay is still the same size. If you designed a new Mustang with a straight 4 you could take the reduced power pack into account to make a smaller engine bay and fuel requirement resulting in more passenger or cargo space - it would still a crime against humanity though…
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Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Except that in this design process, enhancing speed or fuel range does eat up optional space, while reducing range and speed gives access to more space, as you would expect.
Libris
Cosmic Mongoose
True. I was trying to illustrate the counter intuitive notion of ending up with more useable space than you started with without changing the outside size.
The Speed Modifications are understandably quite punitive in terms of space use especially for smaller vehicles and are really only necessary if you must go at some outrageous speed. You can do a lot with the basic vehicle without using up space. Adding Features like Fast or Streamlining or Fuel Efficiency radically alter the performance while still retaining the same basic layout. Though I envision that the type of streamlining implied in the rules would make a Fast and Furious car look subtle.
Incidentally, the rules as written say that the space penalties should be applied separately but this leads to weird cases where it’s impossible to get Faster-3 on a 6 space car, but you can on a space 5 and still be able to have a driver and passenger but only have enough space for a driver in a 7 space car! Adding all the bonuses or penalties up before doing the calculation makes for a much smoother progression.
If you take the basic Ground Car on p151 add Fast, Streamlining, Responsive and use Fuel Efficiency 3 you basically get the the same four seater but it now accelerates like a scalded cat, cruises at 200kph, can hit over over 300kph flat out, still has range of 469km at maximum speed, and that’s at TL7. It’s basically a Porsche Panamera or a Tesla Plaid but without the luxury interior. If you make it TL9 it’ll do over 500kph.
GabrielGABFonseca
Emperor Mongoose
Found one little mistake, and one thing that may or may not be a mistake but which I think bears clarifying.
First, the little mistake: Page 110, Direct Fire Weapons;
And now what I feel needs clarifying, my most beloved feature of the book, Comfort Levels!
As currently written, there is no "floor" to how low the negative DMs can accumulate. Say I have a hapless individual shoved into an Intolerable comfort vehicle; they'll immediately get a DM-2 for every task. After four hours, they'll get a further DM-2 to every task.
What if I leave the poor devil cooped up in there for 12 hours? That's a DM-6 per the rules. What about 24 hours? Will they be getting a DM-12?
Is there any limit to this, beyond basic human decency?
(A resource we all know to be in short supply among TTRPG players...)
First, the little mistake: Page 110, Direct Fire Weapons;
That should read "(...) generally not trained in the Heavy Weapons (artillery) skill, nor (...)".
And now what I feel needs clarifying, my most beloved feature of the book, Comfort Levels!
As currently written, there is no "floor" to how low the negative DMs can accumulate. Say I have a hapless individual shoved into an Intolerable comfort vehicle; they'll immediately get a DM-2 for every task. After four hours, they'll get a further DM-2 to every task.
What if I leave the poor devil cooped up in there for 12 hours? That's a DM-6 per the rules. What about 24 hours? Will they be getting a DM-12?
Is there any limit to this, beyond basic human decency?
(A resource we all know to be in short supply among TTRPG players...)
Does it specify that energy weapons can not do this? This strongly depends on arching fire something that energy weapons are not capable of.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
In relation to the Comfort Levels, we discussed this in the Cluster Truck game I'm in because the starting small craft has crude accommodations with -4 DM. If we take DM as a reduction in comfort level, the Eledy goes from Good Comfort down to long duration seating. The first mission is a 10 trip, which if there is no floor on DMs, will leave us with a -9. That, combined with the -3 from the control quality means we cannot complete a successful maneuver to dock with the station, let alone meet any other challenge while aboard.
Now, it was mostly just a theoretical discussion, but that wouldn't be an uncommon situation for a low quality or poorly maintained in system small craft.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
The following applies to vehicle systems in a spacecraft, which the book says you can do.
Depending on how much money the players have, some things can fairly easily improve the comfort level.
Bunks are Cr200, take .25 tons and give 1 CP.
An Entertainment system gives 1 CP per CR2000, and there is no limit on how many times it can be improved.
Common areas are 4 CP per ton and costs Cr400 per ton. So see how much common area you have, find a decent machine shop, and install Cr400 worth of vehicular common area bolted over your janky stuff.
A full one ton fresher yanked out of a well maintained vehicle gives 8CP.
Stick a galley in a common area.
Also, instead of imposing a -4 DM, it may be better to calculate the CP of a Swank model of the craft, and then use the % of jankiness against that total. Just remember that some of the space for HG berths is life support, while in vehicles that is calculated separately.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
Ok, Eledy is a 25 Curach system transport that has a 2nd stateroom added, replacing 4 tons of cargo. This give 2 full staterooms and 4 tons of common area for 48 CP. The entire hull has gravity plates, so does that count as 25 tons of grav plating? That would be 100 CP comfort level right there, which seems high. Even if just for the living area, that 's 12 tons or 48 CP. Sophont size is 1 and number of occupants is 4 (technically 5, but one is a brain in a box with an avatar body and he doesn't need sleep or comfort apparently), so that would give us 96/4 24 CP comfort level, which is Excellent (I had not used the grav plating in my calculations so it was only 12 CP comfort which is Good comfort, which is what we based our rating on). Crude is 15% functional, which would give us 3.6 CP if using 24, or 1.8 if the grav plate doesn't count. That woud be either Basic or Extended Seating. So that's a little better for us. Basic would only give us a -1 DM at the end of the week, so it would mostly just affect the arrival. Extended Seating would still be pretty bad, with a penalty after 48 hours and then an additional every 24 hours, to a max of -8 DM.
I think I have calculated it correctly. What do you all think?
As for the plan, we're buying 4 cots and sleeping bags, basically bunks, a food prep station, basically a fridge and microwave galley
, and a camp composting toilet and water bottles, for a half fresher, that only adds 6 CP, but it would push up to 4.5 CP, or 2.25, which is just enough to get Standard or Basic.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
How come vehicle common area is so cheap? Ship common area is 100 KCr per ton, so 250 times more expensive! I get that ship area needs life support and what not, but most of that comes from the hull cost, not the equipment.
