VHB 2026 Errata

[Arkathan]

Yes they should.

The meson gun has a burst radius, antything in that radius is affected by it, even if inside armour or a vehicle. Armour is ignored.

So the burst radius is actually the volume in which the mesons decay, not a blast resulting from a central decay that triggers a shockwave of hot rapidly expanding vaporized remains of whatever was in the central targeted spot.

That makes the initial effect a static AOE, using the existing burst mechanic, but the name burst adds confusion, since every other weapon using burst is an actual explosion.

 

[Geir]

So the burst radius is actually the volume in which the mesons decay, not a blast resulting from a central decay that triggers a shockwave of hot rapidly expanding vaporized remains of whatever was in the central targeted spot.

That makes the initial effect a static AOE, using the existing burst mechanic, but the name burst adds confusion, since every other weapon using burst is an actual explosion.

Makes you wonder what happens right outside the radius, but the Blast trait doesn't have a fall-off value as written, so it's either in or out.

 

[Sigtrygg]

So the burst radius is actually the volume in which the mesons decay, not a blast resulting from a central decay that triggers a shockwave of hot rapidly expanding vaporized remains of whatever was in the central targeted spot.

No and yes. The mesons decay within that radius, where is Heisenberg's guess, and cause all of the matter within that radius to gain energy, in such a way that it explodes.

That makes the initial effect a static AOE, using the existing burst mechanic, but the name burst adds confusion, since every other weapon using burst is an actual explosion.

It is an explosion, the decay and explosion happens within nanoseconds.

The "mesons" are made to dump their energy at a certain point, that point is the blast radius not some micron sized point that then expands.

 

[tytalan]

Okay if you say the blast radius is the decay radius that fine that doesn’t affect the fact that the vehicle meson guns are three times the size they should be. They are larger, significantly higher tech level, and do significantly less damage than star ship meson guns. They simple fail in every way to make any sense at their existing tonnage/space.

 

[Arkathan]

It is an explosion, the decay and explosion happens within nanoseconds.

Trillions of sub-atomic particle sized submunition type explosions that saturate the AOE, not a concentrated epicenter expanding outwards.

 

[Condottiere]

That energy release has to go somewhere.

If it's entirely contained within an armoured hull, it could well stay within that armoured hull.

 

[tytalan]

That ship sailed when they introduced 50t meson bays at TL11 in HG...

Actually quite the opposite since that very same 50t meson bay is the same size as the light meson vehicle gun at TL 14 and does over 10 times the damage. Simply put the vehicle meson guns are 3 times the tonnage/spaces that they should be

 

[tytalan]

Trillions of sub-atomic particle sized submunition type explosions that saturate the AOE, not a concentrated epicenter expanding outwards.

If this is the case your not targeting a vehicle your targeting a location and the meson guns should still have the artillery trait. If it attacks everything in the area equally than it’s not a direct attack.

 

[andrewza]

Okay if you say the blast radius is the decay radius that fine that doesn’t affect the fact that the vehicle meson guns are three times the size they should be. They are larger, significantly higher tech level, and do significantly less damage than star ship meson guns. They simple fail in every way to make any sense at their existing tonnage/space.

Are you taking into account the power needs of the star ship meason?


All so not sure what you're talking about since the light meson gun is 15 D tons so about 3 times small than a ship scale Small meson gun bay.

It does less damage while still having double the blast size (blast 20 vs blast 10) and it does not need the 20 power of the small meson gun bay. It simply needs fusion power.It's a trade of based on what you want. there all so nothing stoping some one putting a small bay meson onto a vechile


All so not sure why you're saying the meson needs to be some specific size like this edestion of traveller must follow the old ones like the law. Mongoose can and has changed things

 

[tytalan]

Are you taking into account the power needs of the star ship meason?


All so not sure what you're talking about since the light meson gun is 15 D tons so about 3 times small than a ship scale Small meson gun bay.

It does less damage while still having double the blast size (blast 20 vs blast 10) and it does not need the 20 power of the small meson gun bay. It simply needs fusion power.It's a trade of based on what you want. there all so nothing stoping some one putting a small bay meson onto a vechile


All so not sure why you're saying the meson needs to be some specific size like this edestion of traveller must follow the old ones like the law. Mongoose can and has changed things

Size reduction times 3 bay is now 30 dt so your right I looked up the medium not the light by mistake. Fusion power can also power the bay. Not sure where your gett blast 20 vs blast 10.

Damage comparison
Small bay 500 to 3000
Light meson gun 50 to 300
Med meson gun 60 to 360
Heavy meson gun 80 to 480

Tech level comparison
Small bay (with size reduction) TL 14
Light, med, and heavy meson gun TL 15

Range
Small bay 25000km
Light 150 km
Med 600 km
Heavy 1500 km

All required fusion plus power that’s a wash

Spaces
Bay 120
Light 60
Medium 120
Heavy 240

There is absolutely no logical justification for the vehicle based Meson Guns to be so large they should be a third of the size. The higher TL should only make them smaller not larger. I have no problem with mongoose changing things but I do have a problem with irrational unjustifiable changes which this comparison shows. It is a simple fix and this is the book for it, if you change the vehicle meson guns to 20/40/80 respectably it makes sense and breaks nothing.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Okay if you say the blast radius is the decay radius that fine that doesn’t affect the fact that the vehicle meson guns are three times the size they should be. They are larger, significantly higher tech level, and do significantly less damage than star ship meson guns. They simple fail in every way to make any sense at their existing tonnage/space.

I agree.

If a 50t bay meson gun is TL11 then a vehicle scale weapon should be around the same TL and smaller.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Trillions of sub-atomic particle sized submunition type explosions that saturate the AOE, not a concentrated epicenter expanding outwards.

Sounds about right. I wonder how many mesons are in a meson gun shot...

I also wonder what happens 1 metre outside the "blast radius" or should we call it volume of effect.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Actually quite the opposite since that very same 50t meson bay is the same size as the light meson vehicle gun at TL 14 and does over 10 times the damage. Simply put the vehicle meson guns are 3 times the tonnage/spaces that they should be

Battlefield meson guns used to appear only at TL15.

 

[Sigtrygg]

If this is the case your not targeting a vehicle your targeting a location and the meson guns should still have the artillery trait. If it attacks everything in the area equally than it’s not a direct attack.

That is how they are treated as battlefield weapons, they fire in a line but through stuff, hence you treat them as indirect fire weapons. That's the way it used to be anyway.

"Rule 34: Meson Accelerators
Battlefield meson accelerators are introduced at tech level 15. Although technically a direct fire weapon (the beam travels in a straight line), a meson gun's ability to fire through intervening obstacles and the need to know the distance to target makes it functionally an indirect fire weapon.
Meson accelerators follow the same rules as other indirect fire weapons "

 

[tytalan]

Battlefield meson guns used to appear only at TL15.

You can’t have it both ways either they are smaller like they used to be and TL 15 or they are TL 11 and large. Something has to give

 

[tytalan]

That is how they are treated as battlefield weapons, they fire in a line but through stuff, hence you treat them as indirect fire weapons. That's the way it used to be anyway.

"Rule 34: Meson Accelerators
Battlefield meson accelerators are introduced at tech level 15. Although technically a direct fire weapon (the beam travels in a straight line), a meson gun's ability to fire through intervening obstacles and the need to know the distance to target makes it functionally an indirect fire weapon.
Meson accelerators follow the same rules as other indirect fire weapons "

Which was my point they should have the artillery trait

 

[Sigtrygg]

Size reduction times 3 bay is now 30 dt so your right I looked up the medium not the light by mistake. Fusion power can also power the bay. Not sure where your gett blast 20 vs blast 10.

Damage comparison
Small bay 500 to 3000
Light meson gun 50 to 300
Med meson gun 60 to 360
Heavy meson gun 80 to 480

Tech level comparison
Small bay (with size reduction) TL 14
Light, med, and heavy meson gun TL 15

Range
Small bay 25000km
Light 150 km
Med 600 km
Heavy 1500 km

All required fusion plus power that’s a wash

Spaces
Bay 120
Light 60
Medium 120
Heavy 240

There is absolutely no logical justification for the vehicle based Meson Guns to be so large they should be a third of the size. The higher TL should only make them smaller not larger. I have no problem with mongoose changing things but I do have a problem with irrational unjustifiable changes which this comparison shows. It is a simple fix and this is the book for it, if you change the vehicle meson guns to 20/40/80 respectably it makes sense and breaks nothing.

I agree.

 

[andrewza]

Size reduction times 3 bay is now 30 dt so your right I looked up the medium not the light by mistake. Fusion power can also power the bay. Not sure where your gett blast 20 vs blast 10.

Damage comparison
Small bay 500 to 3000
Light meson gun 50 to 300
Med meson gun 60 to 360
Heavy meson gun 80 to 480

Tech level comparison
Small bay (with size reduction) TL 14
Light, med, and heavy meson gun TL 15

Range
Small bay 25000km
Light 150 km
Med 600 km
Heavy 1500 km

All required fusion plus power that’s a wash

Spaces
Bay 120
Light 60
Medium 120
Heavy 240

There is absolutely no logical justification for the vehicle based Meson Guns to be so large they should be a third of the size. The higher TL should only make them smaller not larger. I have no problem with mongoose changing things but I do have a problem with irrational unjustifiable changes which this comparison shows. It is a simple fix and this is the book for it, if you change the vehicle meson guns to 20/40/80 respectably it makes sense and breaks nothing.

The blast rules are from high guard. Any non orbital bombardment weapon has blast 10. So the vechile meson blast damage is a lot higher.

The vechile scale mesons only need a fussion power. The star ship bay needs it to be 20 power reactor, that's 2 tons for the rector and fuel not to mention the power need for the sensors to allow it to fire at max range.

There is all so cost to fact in.

The vechile meson are a lot cheaper to. I mean is the cost worth it.

 

[andrewza]

Which was my point they should have the artillery trait

Why. That would just make them worse not better. Since now they can just role to attack the the target behind cover and not have to add on the DM-2 to the roll

 

[tytalan]

The blast rules are from high guard. Any non orbital bombardment weapon has blast 10. So the vechile meson blast damage is a lot higher.

The vechile scale mesons only need a fussion power. The star ship bay needs it to be 20 power reactor, that's 2 tons for the rector and fuel not to mention the power need for the sensors to allow it to fire at max range.

There is all so cost to fact in.

The vechile meson are a lot cheaper to. I mean is the cost worth it.

Vehicle hand book fusion power advance TL 15 5pt per space
Vehicle handbook fusion+ Advance TL 13 2pt per space.
And fusion power advance has a minimum of 5 space meaning a minimum of 25 pt
And fusion plus uses 10% of the available spaces so bay has no issues with that either
Sensors irrelevant for the argument both need the sensor to attack orbiting spacecraft
Try again