Varied Critical Hit Results

[rgrove0172]

Im brand new to d20, still awaiting my ordered Conan RPG stuff and eagerly anticipating starting a campaign. I was browsing through an old copy of D&D3.5 Ive had laying around to kind of warm up and was suprised to see how Critical Hits are handled. Damage Multipliers only?

This seems kind of dull when it presents the opportunity for so much color. Has anyone worked on a system of alternate critical effects based on the weapon and level of the wielder? I can invision all sorts of great effects such as..

Tripping your opponant
Knocking your opponant down
Stunning your opponant
Disarming
Knocking a shield loose
Knocking a helm off
Blinding, maiming, or other permanent but non lethal damage
Allowing a follow up attack at reduced Parry/Dodge

etc. etc. etc.

This would add a lot of detail to a fight without much effort. Im kind of shocked nothing like this is in place already.

Comments?

 

[argo]

:shrug: I've never been too hot for expanded crit/fumble tables. They always seem to alternate wildly from pointless trivia like "break a sheild strap" to game-breaking stuff like "loose a hand". I guess I just don't like quite that much randomness.


However there are quite a few d20 supplements for this just sort of thing. Torn Asunder: Critical Hits by Bastion Press usually gets high marks. I think you can get it as a PDF off rpg now but I'm not too sure. Like I said, its not my thing so I don't own the book myself.

Hope that Helps.

 

[argo]

One more thing....

Just something to remember, with the lower MDT in Conan a crit from many weapons can force a massive damage save and therefore be a potential insta-kill. So there is some excitement from the "vanilla" crits.


A player in my last session laid out 51 points of damage off a confirmed crit with a battleaxe... very impressive :shock:

 

[rgrove0172]

I just read through some reviews of "Torn Asunder" and I gotta say it looks ready made for the gritty, blood slinging world of Hyboria. Sadly I cant find it in a pdf yet, but Im still looking. I can imagine it adds some complexity to the game, and Im a little intimidated as a newbie in d20 gaming but eventually I just cant imagine not having something like this in place.

 

[Strom]

I love using critical hit and fumbles tables. My players all love it too. I've used the critical hits and fumbles table that Iron Chef posted back in the day for D20. It accounts for blunt or slashing type weapons and really adds to the situation - good and bad.

I'm also a big fan of the critical hit tables in the Warhammer Fantasy RPG.

 

[Auggie]

The critical hit tables in Warhammer FRP (the 'old' edition) were great!

 

[Trodax]

The actions you're talking about (tripping, disarming and knocking an opponent over) are basically all covered by special actions in d20. So they are things you can choose to do in combat, while critical hits are all about being high-damage hits (and, as argo points out, are often insta-kills in Conan). I think the game is just set up a little different than you are used to.

If you are going to houserule, you should be aware of the fact that the different weapons critical hits are sort of balanced against each other. For example, a broadsword crits on a roll of 19-20 and does double damage, while a battleaxe crits only on 20 but does triple damage. This means that, in the long run, the total damage output of these weapons will be exactly the same, although the broadsword scores a critical twice as often but with less damage. If you introduce optional results on critical hits, different weapons might become a lot better (a scimitar (crits on 18-20) could be used to trip someone three times as often as a war spear (crits on 20), for example).

 

[rgrove0172]

Well I probably wouldnt even try to implement house rules of any kind until much more familiar with this new system. Most likely months if not a year or more down the road. If I really feel that something extra is warranted Ill be looking for tried and true published products, well playtested and approved for use with d20. Ill have to look at the Conan system in particular first of course, as Im still awaiting my shipment of books. If what you all say is true and the nature of the criticals in the game is already pretty deadly, then what they will often come out to represent is mearly a "cool kill" which I can improvise in detail on my own.

 

[quigs]

I always ask the PC's for descriptions of each killing blow, they can be quite descriptive and have each come up with some signature moves when dispatching enemies.

They have a fondness for collecting heads as well

 

[Sutek]

Here's an avant garde idea: Make each Threat force a Stat Check or Save based on whatever the lowest stat is of the target. In other words, you could use either - pick one, that'd be simplest. Essentially, the idea would be like this: If I get a Threat on you, I have to check for a critical. You, on th other hand, have to check and see if you have a...let's call it a Fumble since there aren't any in Conan now. Rolling 1 is always a "failure" but it isnt' a Fumble. I suppose you could use this idea I'm coming up with now if someone rolls a 1, but I'll keep it in terms of Threats and Crits for the time being.

Look at the target's stats and see what is lowest. The character will have to make a stat check on that stat or suffer some dilema.

STR - they'll drop a weapon/shield
DEX - they'll stumble and fall Prone
CON - they have become Fatigued trying to fend off the blow
WIS - they've lost concentration on the surroundings and thier next attack will strike at a comrade
INT - they've been confused and thier foe counts as being Concealed next attack
CHR - they get cut in an obvious place that will leave a noticible scar

Something like that anyway. Basically, there are non-damage related results to the Threat if a foe's stats are particularly low. It's already bad enough tat he might be Critted, but it also makes sense that, as a result of that powerful blow, they also drop thier sword - whether the strike results in Critical Damage or not.

 

[Philip_fry]

Here's an avant garde idea: Make each Threat force a Stat Check or Save based on whatever the lowest stat is of the target. In other words, you could use either - pick one, that'd be simplest. Essentially, the idea would be like this: If I get a Threat on you, I have to check for a critical. You, on th other hand, have to check and see if you have a...let's call it a Fumble since there aren't any in Conan now. Rolling 1 is always a "failure" but it isnt' a Fumble. I suppose you could use this idea I'm coming up with now if someone rolls a 1, but I'll keep it in terms of Threats and Crits for the time being.

Look at the target's stats and see what is lowest. The character will have to make a stat check on that stat or suffer some dilema.

STR - they'll drop a weapon/shield
DEX - they'll stumble and fall Prone
CON - they have become Fatigued trying to fend off the blow
WIS - they've lost concentration on the surroundings and thier next attack will strike at a comrade
INT - they've been confused and thier foe counts as being Concealed next attack
CHR - they get cut in an obvious place that will leave a noticible scar

Something like that anyway. Basically, there are non-damage related results to the Threat if a foe's stats are particularly low. It's already bad enough tat he might be Critted, but it also makes sense that, as a result of that powerful blow, they also drop thier sword - whether the strike results in Critical Damage or not.

Nice idea. The results for the charisma "fumble" should be changed so. Those don´t really fit in the others, all having consequences for the proceeding combat situation, while a scar is, well just a scar.
My suggestion:
CHR - they are so stunned by the prowess of their foe, regardless of rightfully so or just imagined, they suffer a penatly of -2 for any action against the opponent for the next round.

Regards Marcel

 

[Sutek]

The scar could affect Reputation. Think between the lines, my son...

:lol:

 

[LokiOne]

As an alternative to having just a series of direct Kills or massive damage rolls, I believe that descriptive "Criticals" make a game more memorable, as these things must have happened in 'real battle'. If you remember the rather descriptive and often gory combat in the Conan novels there's ...

-Piles of slippery 'gore' and people tripping up on, or trying to hold in their intestines in, etc.
-fingers, hands, and other bits of body sliced off or crushed (ie: teeth)
-blood obscuring vision from a head wound
-a character being 'brained' or knocked out is common (crtiical stun)
- overbalances, slips, trips, and so on.
-equipment failures, such as parts of armour falling off, due to sliced straps and suchlike.
-shattered and damaged shields (a punch grip is easier to get rid of than a strap on).

The best set of fumble or critical tables were made up by some Mediaeval Living History combatants. It just makes things more colourful and interesting rather than staring down at a whole pile of dice pips.

PLUS - it would be a great alternative to having to make the 'save or die' roll with massive damage on Your Character (PC). Most good roleplayers will see it as an opportunity to overcome a limitation and impress the GM with their resourcefullness rather than tear up the Character sheet.

Of course you don't want to implement it for every faceless Pict that comes joyously leaping onto your blades .... Just for the important combats.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Love it, Love it, Love it!
:twisted: :twisted:
Great ideas, guys!
I just bought Torn Asunder and should get it next week. I'll see if it can add some details.

 

[rgrove0172]

I just recieved Torn Asunder and it looks pretty good. The criticals are limited, but I suppose thats fine as it would complicate the system otherwise. I havent played it yet of course but from a glance it looks like it might be just the thing.