Vacuum rated cargo haulage

[mavikfelna]

So, I have my little 100 ton Cyber-Freighter that tows its cargo in a 400 ton jump net/external cargo mounts. It has fuel/cargo containers inside but if it has external cargo it needs those for fuel.
There have been some discussions on this forum about vacuum rated containers but little about how much it should affect the cost of carry trade if you're just the shipper.
I feel like I should be charging less per ton of freight in order to make up for the fact the shippers must use vacuum rated containers. So how much less? 10%? 20%? My gut feeling is 10% but I was curious what y'all thought.
Also, I've found what my son likes to call "an infinite money glitch" trade location, Dark Nebula Treege 3132 and Sacrifice 3232. High pop Industrial world next to a Non-industrial, Agriculture world. Even with bad rolls on the trade table I think it may be impossible to lose money trading between these two. Especially with a Broker 5 Improved BrokerBot from MixCorp.
So if I'm buying spec cargo I will need to invest in vacuum rated containers, just standard ones for the industrial goods but for the foodstuffs I'll need controled environment ones. So, how much will the vacuum rated controlled environment containers cost me, and how long do they take to unload and load? I really don't want more than a week down time on each end but I can't afford to just buy a huge lot of containers to have them waiting around while I travel.

 

[Arkathan]

The cost incurred by the interstellar ship is for transport. This cost is not based upon the container used by the shipper.
A business or government shipping items that do not do well when exposed to vacuum are incentivized to use vacuum rated containers when sending things through the vacuum, since a ship's hull is not guaranteed to be immune to acts of piracy. Were I an insurance company, I would not pay off on goods NOT shipped in a vacuum rated container.

For purposes of Travellers, vacuum rated containers are standard, ubiquitous and part of your purchase price. That price is passed on to the seller through the sale roll. Also note that you are not necessarily actually buying the container, but paying a deposit fee or some similar mechanic for its use until it can be emptied and refilled at the destination. A small insurance premium tied into every freight transaction would be more than enough to replace containers at acceptable rates of loss - and where those rates become unacceptable, other factors are petitioning local and Imperial forces to stop those losses through the application of force

 

[Terry Mixon]

So, I have my little 100 ton Cyber-Freighter that tows its cargo in a 400 ton jump net/external cargo mounts. It has fuel/cargo containers inside but if it has external cargo it needs those for fuel.
There have been some discussions on this forum about vacuum rated containers but little about how much it should affect the cost of carry trade if you're just the shipper.
I feel like I should be charging less per ton of freight in order to make up for the fact the shippers must use vacuum rated containers. So how much less? 10%? 20%? My gut feeling is 10% but I was curious what y'all thought.
Also, I've found what my son likes to call "an infinite money glitch" trade location, Dark Nebula Treege 3132 and Sacrifice 3232. High pop Industrial world next to a Non-industrial, Agriculture world. Even with bad rolls on the trade table I think it may be impossible to lose money trading between these two. Especially with a Broker 5 Improved BrokerBot from MixCorp.
So if I'm buying spec cargo I will need to invest in vacuum rated containers, just standard ones for the industrial goods but for the foodstuffs I'll need controled environment ones. So, how much will the vacuum rated controlled environment containers cost me, and how long do they take to unload and load? I really don't want more than a week down time on each end but I can't afford to just buy a huge lot of containers to have them waiting around while I travel.

Remember Broker doesn’t use stat DMs. The Broker Droid is capped at Broker 3 for trade as that is the raw skill number.

 

[mavikfelna]

The cost incurred by the interstellar ship is for transport. This cost is not based upon the container used by the shipper.
A business or government shipping items that do not do well when exposed to vacuum are incentivized to use vacuum rated containers when sending things through the vacuum, since a ship's hull is not guaranteed to be immune to acts of piracy. Were I an insurance company, I would not pay off on goods NOT shipped in a vacuum rated container.

For purposes of Travellers, vacuum rated containers are standard, ubiquitous and part of your purchase price. That price is passed on to the seller through the sale roll. Also note that you are not necessarily actually buying the container, but paying a deposit fee or some similar mechanic for its use until it can be emptied and refilled at the destination. A small insurance premium tied into every freight transaction would be more than enough to replace containers at acceptable rates of loss - and where those rates become unacceptable, other factors are petitioning local and Imperial forces to stop those losses through the application of force

So what you are saying is that it:s already included in the numbers as is and no adjustments are needed. Cool. Thanks.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The cost incurred by the interstellar ship is for transport. This cost is not based upon the container used by the shipper.
A business or government shipping items that do not do well when exposed to vacuum are incentivized to use vacuum rated containers when sending things through the vacuum, since a ship's hull is not guaranteed to be immune to acts of piracy. Were I an insurance company, I would not pay off on goods NOT shipped in a vacuum rated container.

For purposes of Travellers, vacuum rated containers are standard, ubiquitous and part of your purchase price. That price is passed on to the seller through the sale roll. Also note that you are not necessarily actually buying the container, but paying a deposit fee or some similar mechanic for its use until it can be emptied and refilled at the destination. A small insurance premium tied into every freight transaction would be more than enough to replace containers at acceptable rates of loss - and where those rates become unacceptable, other factors are petitioning local and Imperial forces to stop those losses through the application of force

The Starship Operator’s Manual says the standard cargo containers are not vacuum sealed.

“The standard cargo container configuration. A simple box, typically corrugated, with a hinged door at one end. Not necessarily airtight.”

There are airtight ones, but no cost is mentioned.

The full list of container types and descriptions.

 

[Arkathan]

The Starship Operator’s Manual says the standard cargo containers are not vacuum sealed.

“The standard cargo container configuration. A simple box, typically corrugated, with a hinged door at one end. Not necessarily airtight.”

Haven't read that far in that one yet. Probably should at some point, instead of relying on memory.

But if I were insuring the cargo, I wouldn't pay off for sensitive cargo stored in a container not rated for space.

Still, the costs are folded into the broker rolls and the transporting entity has no duty to discount for requiring vacuum ready containers. That is part of finding a freight broker - one that has lots that you can carry by the method your ship carries cargo.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Haven't read that far in that one yet. Probably should at some point, instead of relying on memory.

But if I were insuring the cargo, I wouldn't pay off for sensitive cargo stored in a container not rated for space.

Agreed. I just added all the containers to the post above.

 

[Arkathan]

Agreed. I just added all the containers to the post above.

I probably should have used standardized instead of standard

 

[MarcusIII]

There have been some discussions on this forum about vacuum rated containers but little about how much it should affect the cost of carry trade if you're just the shipper.

IMTU all cargo containers are vacc rated as mandated by safety regs. So it's the default and listed shipping rates already have this factored in.

 

[Endie]

The “infinite money glitch” requires a dumbo GM. An advantage of playing a ttrpg over an MMO is that any GM with a modicum of sense will point out that it doesn’t matter if you have broker 100: two planets will not bankrupt themselves providing endless profits to a player. If demand is consistently high, more traders will enter the market and satisfy that demand with increased supply until the price drops to a point where it is only just profitable to fulfil the demand.

Any arbitrage opportunity closes rapidly. The speculative trading rules are for occasional opportunities. They are not an economic model for macro-level trade.

 

[Condottiere]

The easiest infinite money glitch is stock market manipulation.

Also, printing money.

 

[phavoc]

Well, to be fair, if you are towing anything through space and expect the contents to not be affected by radiation, vacuum, temperature and meteorite strikes then you have to assume it needs to be the same magical hull material that spaceships and starships are constructed of. That means the average cost of a container you tow or put on the external portion of your ship should be MUCH more expensive than your standard container. It's not unreasonable to expect such a container to cost 10X what a standard one costs.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Well, to be fair, if you are towing anything through space and expect the contents to not be affected by radiation, vacuum, temperature and meteorite strikes then you have to assume it needs to be the same magical hull material that spaceships and starships are constructed of. That means the average cost of a container you tow or put on the external portion of your ship should be MUCH more expensive than your standard container. It's not unreasonable to expect such a container to cost 10X what a standard one costs.

I designed external cargo pods like this for exactly this reason. They can be loaded with whatever and the interior is under life support and protected by a proper hull.

 

[MarcusIII]

I designed external cargo pods like this for exactly this reason. They can be loaded with whatever and the interior is under life support and protected by a proper hull.

Yes, that would be the way it would have to be. An entire system rather than just airtight metal boxes

 

[Terry Mixon]

Yes, that would be the way it would have to be. An entire system rather than just airtight metal boxes

I agree. The link to ship designs in my signature has all the pods and even the pod tenders in it. They can do a lot more than cargo. If they suit, enjoy.

 

[hopsnbaer]

Not having vacuum-rated containers is a reason for Cargo Airlocks. I removed them from a refit Marava. That may have been a mistake, although I think by RAW you can still hook an airlock up against a ship hatch.

 

[MarcusIII]

Not having vacuum-rated containers is a reason for Cargo Airlocks. I removed them from a refit Marava. That may have been a mistake, although I think by RAW you can still hook an airlock up against a ship hatch.

Perhaps. But having airlocks can just be to speed the process by not having to depressurize and not having to suit up while handling the cargo.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Perhaps. But having airlocks can just be to speed the process by not having to depressurize and not having to suit up while handling the cargo.

If you have a pod that uses docking clamps, the build-in docking hatch on the station and a matching one on the pod can mate up and you get full access, so I don’t see why a ship couldn’t do the same. Have a docking hatch in the cargo area an hook up to a station with a suitable clamp and unload/load in shirtsleeves.

 

[MarcusIII]

If you have a pod that uses docking clamps, the build-in docking hatch on the station and a matching one on the pod can mate up and you get full access, so I don’t see why a ship couldn’t do the same. Have a docking hatch in the cargo area an hook up to a station with a suitable clamp and unload/load in shirtsleeves.

I would think that there would be standardized built in systems lie that.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Not having vacuum-rated containers is a reason for Cargo Airlocks. I removed them from a refit Marava. That may have been a mistake, although I think by RAW you can still hook an airlock up against a ship hatch.

Not losing all the air in the cargo hold or allowing into air that is not human breathable is another reason.