Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works

[tytalan]

Edit: Hilariously just after your denials in previous posts, I was chatting to a colleague in Montpelier and Storm Benjamin is currently hitting the western Mediterranean.

Apparently you can’t read otherwise you would know that I did say there are storms in the Mediterranean especially in the fall and winter months. A storm doesn’t mean it not considered a clam sea. It Hilarious that you think a single storm one that’s actually in the Atlantic though it is causing effects in the Mediterranean proves your point, does that mean I can pick a day in summer where the Mediterranean is completely clam to prove my point. If you think that the Mediterranean is more rough and dangerous than the Atlantic I feel sorry for you because you are very misinformed.

One of your problems with the information you are presenting about the Romans is the fact that at that time the Greeks were a part of the Roman Empire and were considered Romans. It was the Greek members of the Roman Empire that primarily crewed and sailed their barges. Your book do not separate the two. Rom itself actually didn’t have the man power to crew these ships while the Greeks and Egyptian had a much greater pool of experienced sailors. You really have to actually did into the history book in some cases to separate actual Romans from it subject people’s in most of these cases. As for the books you mentioned they are pretty good for their focus.

As for why I’m giving you goggle quotes there are two reasons one I’m not digging into books from my associates degree from way back in the late 1980s and two even if I did want to go to that extent your not worth me transcribing 80 or more pages across 15 different history and sociology books.

I think I’m done with you now since you are all knowing, at lease in you eyes.

 

[tytalan]

You do realize that you asked for the reference to the overland ship thing, yes? And that it is in Greece, not Rome?

Sorry Arkathan I got side tracked with the other argument. Your post was an interesting read and a good find. I wish I could read the full article what little was available looked interesting I’m going to see if I can find it elsewhere

 

[phavoc]

Yes, absolutely, but the "build by numbers" element that he referenced in the post I replied to was a Roman invention for mass production in shipyards that had no experience with the techniques involved, to allow them to scale out production. That's what i was referring to. And I certainly never suggested that they were using slave rowers (at this point)!

Oh, no assumption intended, I was just pointing out that bit of trivia.

I don't know enough of the other empires during that period and how fast (of if) they needed to rebuild their navies. I know Salamis and Actium were big battles, just don't know what they did to build up to that (or rebuild after that).

 

[Endie]

Apparently you can’t read otherwise you would know that I did say there are storms in the Mediterranean especially in the fall and winter months. A storm doesn’t mean it not considered a clam sea. It Hilarious that you think a single storm one that’s actually in the Atlantic though it is causing effects in the Mediterranean proves your point, does that mean I can pick a day in summer where the Mediterranean is completely clam to prove my point. If you think that the Mediterranean is more rough and dangerous than the Atlantic I feel sorry for you because you are very misinformed.

One of your problems with the information you are presenting about the Romans is the fact that at that time the Greeks were a part of the Roman Empire and were considered Romans. It was the Greek members of the Roman Empire that primarily crewed and sailed their barges. Your book do not separate the two. Rom itself actually didn’t have the man power to crew these ships while the Greeks and Egyptian had a much greater pool of experienced sailors. You really have to actually did into the history book in some cases to separate actual Romans from it subject people’s in most of these cases. As for the books you mentioned they are pretty good for their focus.

As for why I’m giving you goggle quotes there are two reasons one I’m not digging into books from my associates degree from way back in the late 1980s and two even if I did want to go to that extent your not worth me transcribing 80 or more pages across 15 different history and sociology books.

I think I’m done with you now since you are all knowing, at lease in you eyes.

What prominent expert in their field doesn’t think that “Rom” sailed on a “clam sea”?

 

[Endie]

Oh, no assumption intended, I was just pointing out that bit of trivia.

I don't know enough of the other empires during that period and how fast (of if) they needed to rebuild their navies. I know Salamis and Actium were big battles, just don't know what they did to build up to that (or rebuild after that).

Gotcha.

The classic examples of rapid fleet rebuilding and building were probably Athens and Sparta, the former after Syracuse and the latter at the tail end of the Peloponnesian war. That said, the Athenians had to do it more than once and the Phoenecians at least once.

 

[Condottiere]

As I always mention, it depends on what you expect to be facing, and resources at hand.

The Persians tended to commandeer fleets from littoral satrapies, and funded the Spartans, if only to keep the Athenians occupied.

Once Alexander dealt with the littoral satrapies, he could disband the Macedonian fleet, since his sea lines of communication were no longer threatened.

Which is probably the intent of Mare Nostrum, in that the Romans had control of all the littoral provinces, so that they didn't have to maintain large numbers of galleys in order to ensure that they control it.

 

[Endie]

As I always mention, it depends on what you expect to be facing, and resources at hand.

The Persians tended to commandeer fleets from littoral satrapies, and funded the Spartans, if only to keep the Athenians occupied.

Once Alexander dealt with the littoral satrapies, he could disband the Macedonian fleet, since his sea lines of communication were no longer threatened.

Which is probably the intent of Mare Nostrum, in that the Romans had control of all the littoral provinces, so that they didn't have to maintain large numbers of galleys in order to ensure that they control it.

Yes, the Phoenician rebuild I alluded to was thanks to losses they incurred on behalf of the Persians.

The Romans did maintain a very, very substantial fleet even in the Mediterranean for logistical purposes. They maintained more combat-focused fleets in the Channel and North Sea, which they would use early on during punitive expeditions (Mons Graupius was allegedly fought within sight of the Roman fleet, which has narrowed-down the hunt for the site) and then later on for protection of the Saxon Shore. But something which a certain earlier poster didn't grasp was the fact that in ancient naval warfare, the dividing line between "warship" and "transport" was far narrower than in the modern navy.

 

[Condottiere]

Sort of upto the Spanish Armada.

The Romans also had brownwater fleets, patrolling the Rhine and Danube.