Twilight 20##

[Kurgan]

I couldn't help but notice the comment in the State of the Mongoose regarding the possible desire to publish a new version of Twilight 2000.

As much as I'd enjoy seeing the game get the "Mongoose Treatment," it's only fair I point out that the game is already back in print with another company. It's called Twilight 2013 (aka TW2K v3.0). I've only recently purchased the book, so am still looking through it and can't attest to its quality myself yet, but I've heard from several people that they did a very good job on it.

The only drawback seems to be in support material. Lots of small PDFs being released to add weapons and such, but not much else (apart from NPCs). One setting, split into two smallish PDFs that combined only reach 31 pages, and one adventure that's a free download.

If you're wanting to get involved in that game (and no, I'm not connected with them in any way, just a fan of the original game), I think it would be a great idea to see about working with them under the Flaming Cobra imprint. They're apparently such a small company that I'm not surprised at the lack of support materials, and FC would be a match made in heaven that could lead to Moongoose producing more adventures for the line (which is what I, as a gamer, would most want to see).

Coincidentally, I just got an email today from DriveThru saying they're having a Christmas Sale for that game. The whole shebang for $10. Since I've already got the book I'm still debating whether I'm interested in the rest. It would help if there were a few adventure modules in there to temp me. But if you're new to it, it's a cheap way to check it out and see if it's worth pursuing.

 

[Dark Mistress]

I believe they are losing the license for the game. They have said something to the effect they will no longer be making it.

 

[Kurgan]

I just looked it up...

This is probably the hardest post I've every had to make on any forum I belong to. The license for the use of Twilight: 2000 and its supplements runs out Dec. 31, 2010. For personal reasons, I've decided not to renew the license. At which time I'm also going to close the doors on 93 Games Studio.

Oh, the irony. I had been wanting to get into the game for several years, and the month that I finally pick up a copy it turns out to be the same month they're dropping the license and closing their doors. Can I time things perfectly, or what?

I wish I was more familiar with the rules. I honestly don't know if a new version would be better or worse at this point. I'm still unfamiliar with the Reflex system.

There's a lot of speculation over what Mongoose might do with the property. It's fairly obvious they won't keep the current setting, and will create another new history, and I can live with that, I suppose. What will drive me away is if the predictions of turning it into a miniatures game become a reality. I absolutely loathe marketing trends, and hybrid RPGs that are really little more than a cross between a board game and a miniatures game (D&D4E, Warhammer 3E, etc), with little roleplaying involved, are "all the rage" now. Sure, I couldn't blame Mongoose if they did what they thought would make them a buck, but that doesn't mean I have to like it if it plays out that way.

(I'd much prefer it to remain a "pure" RPG, and simply add a minis companion rulebook for those that want to include that element, --which can be fun if it doesn't take over and become the game--, and then they could market models and minis without it hurting the RPG.)

Oh, well. Guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Dark Mistress]

The reflex system was pretty good. It needed a little work i thought. It is a very realistic system which for a game based on survival makes sense. I wasn't a huge fan of the fluff but it was ok. The lack of support for the game and the tier 3 of the rules never showing up is what bugged me.

 

[Kurgan]

I saw a "Tier #" rulebook on DriveThru. I think it was Tier 2. I get the idea of doing that, and approve, but are you saying that Tier 3 never made it into the rulebook, or just that it never got published seperately?

I take it each Tier is a higher level of realism that can be used, and a bit more complicated? Or am I misunderstanding what the Tiers are?

 

[Dark Mistress]

Yeah tier 1 and most of tier 2 was in the main book if I remember and then they was going to add other books to finish tier 2 and then later add like a advanced rules book for tier 3. It was never done.

And yes each tier was suppose to be more complicated but more realistic as well.

 

[howardouglas]

I don't quite agree with you.
But your concern is appreciable.

 

[Dark Mistress]

I don't quite agree with you.
But your concern is appreciable.

Well my problem was they promised to finish them and didn't. That bugged me. Same with the region books. Instead they focused almost everything on new weapons, the things I wanted to see least.

 

[Armchair_Marine]

(I'd much prefer it to remain a "pure" RPG, and simply add a minis companion rulebook for those that want to include that element, --which can be fun if it doesn't take over and become the game--, and then they could market models and minis without it hurting the RPG.)

Oh, well. Guess we'll see what happens.

It's a modern military setting with the main characters being military servicemen. If I wanted to "roleplay" modern military there are enough video games out there for that. I'd much prefer to see this as a miniatures game with some roleplaying elements.

 

[Kurgan]

It's a modern military setting with the main characters being military servicemen. If I wanted to "roleplay" modern military there are enough video games out there for that. I'd much prefer to see this as a miniatures game with some roleplaying elements.

All that tells me is that you have no understanding of, or experience with, TW2K (an RPG that despite it's wartorn backdrop was entirely focused on the human drama), and thus would be happy with any of the vast number of military-based miniatures games already on the market. In other word, there's no reason to deprive me, and those like me, of something we love by changing it when what you desire already exists in droves.

To "convert" TW2K into a primarily miniatures based game would be about the same level of slap-in-the-face Heresy as Alien III was to Aliens.

(I'm also disturbed by your comparrison of roleplaying and video games. Despite the term having been illogically coopted by the gaming industry, there is no roleplaying involved in video gaming, short of a very few exceptions that allow multiple participants and voice, and even then it's usually just a pretense for organized combat. --I will say this, though. Story-driven first-person-perspective games like the Thief series, Deus Ex, System Shock 2, and so on, are certainly the closest thing to actually achieving the sense of actually roleplaying, even if you're not truly interacting with other human beings or "acting," per se. I do love those games.)

 

[SnowDog]

It's a modern military setting with the main characters being military servicemen. If I wanted to "roleplay" modern military there are enough video games out there for that. I'd much prefer to see this as a miniatures game with some roleplaying elements.

Although the game started as a sort of military game meaning that all characters were by default American military personnel who had been left to their own devices it really only gave a chance to play (ex-)soldiers in a way that would allow rolepalying in much more wide context than just obeying orders and completing missions. In fact it is a game about survival and making choices.

Even in the 2nd edition and even more so in the 3rd edition (Twilight:2013) it was possible to play civilians without any experience in military.

When I actually played the game (1st edition) all of us were either former military or some sort of intelligence agents but just because we liked to play it that way doesn't mean that it was the only way to run it (on the contrary).

But frankly, I or my group are not all that interested in post-apoc game. So, I bought the latest version mainly because of the rules to be used in modern day gaming as general.

 

[aelius]

Since the original Twilight 2000 was the prequel to 2300 AD and Mongoose is now releasing 2300 AD again...
Seems a match made in heaven to me.
They could expand Colin's new Twilight out into a full setting and have a ball.