Turrets, Barbettes, and multiple hits

[DFW]

That's personal scale damage, not ship damage. At least thats what it says in beltstrike.

I thought this weapon was from the Varg supp.

 

[barnest2]

It's in both I believe. And it's pretty much the same in Beltstrike.

I seriously hope it qualifies the personal scale thing in the varg supplement. Because otherwise you have a turret mounted weapon more powerful than a particle bay.

 

[AndrewW]

I seriously hope it qualifies the personal scale thing in the varg supplement. Because otherwise you have a turret mounted weapon more powerful than a particle bay.

It doesn't, that's all it gives.

 

[zero]

You are putting alot of this on the point of a Gunner having a skill of 3, which is pretty rare, I rarely see characters with a skill level of 2 in something, unless theyre using Jump time to level up.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I seriously hope it qualifies the personal scale thing in the varg supplement. Because otherwise you have a turret mounted weapon more powerful than a particle bay.

It doesn't, that's all it gives.

I'll have to check the GURPS book when I get home, but I think it's high damage because it assumes a continuous stream of energy used to cut open asteroids and derelict ship hulls "out of combat" while the ship is park next to or "attached" via grappling arm etc...
If used in combat, I would give drastic negatives like half damage with close range being it's max range etc...

 

[barnest2]

My beltstrike book (pg. 22) says:
"A heavy duty, semi-portable laser specifically designed for mining toleances... is tripod mounted...is far more powerful than a laser rifle... if used as a weapon, rather than for drilling, attacks suffer a -3DM and inflicts 7D6 damage."

It's quite obvious from the context what scale the damage is, due to the comparison to a laser rifle, rather than to, say, a beam laser.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Ahhh...
Ok, so it seems that the turret mounted mining laser within the GURPS starships rules have not yet been translated into the Mongoose system.
I'll offer a Mongoose conversion based on the GURPS version later this evening if there is some interest. The mining laser is meant for salvagers and miners within asteroid belts, floating junk yards, old war zones, etc...

 

[barnest2]

Well, that idea is used throughout belt-strike mounted in turrets as a mining laser on ships.

 

[DFW]

You are putting alot of this on the point of a Gunner having a skill of 3, which is pretty rare, I rarely see characters with a skill level of 2 in something, unless theyre using Jump time to level up.

2, 3, whatever. A no penalty hugely powerful weapon still. Sounds like the author screwed the pooch in describing it in Vagr.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Hello all, back home from the office....

GURPS Starships, page 67

Turreted Mining Lasers
This is a powerful mining laser or cutting laser used by ultra-tech minging, engineering, and rescue vehicles. Mining lasers are sized for continuos fire, so no energy bank is required. All mining lasers are constructed with the following options: Close range, energy drill, and no stabilization. All TL11+ lasers are built with the compact option to represent the advances in technology found in normal shipboard weapons. See B125 for attacking inanimate objects for more information.
Although the mining laser can be used as a shipboard weapon, it is impractical to do so because damage is so low and range is so short. If a mining laser is used as a weapon, damage is calculated somewhat differntly; the target is no longer a big dumb rock (or space hulk) , but is theoretically trying to avoid being hit. All damage ratings are divided by 4. (more stuff I deleted not important)

Also, the listed damage for the weakest laser turret weapon is 5d6X20, and the mining laser damage starts out at 5d6X5 under the weapon damage table (nicely divided by 4) The cost of a mining laser in GURPS starts out at 2.63 MCr while a normal ships laser starts out at .875 MCr.

So, if we keep it "simple stupid" a turret sized weapon can do 7d6 continuous damage of cutting into a space hulk hull or asteroid in a 6 minute span of time, but if used in combat, it is short ranged and if in the off chance you score a hit, all role 7d6 divide by 4, then subtract armor, sand, etc....

If used on a personal level, (personal tripod sized) you still keep the 7d6 damage for cutting into bulkhead doors, through battle dress, taking off limbs, etc...

So now I'm ready for people to poke holes in my "simple stupid" solution!

 

[rust]

I am not convinced that a mining laser is a good idea (a cutting laser
certainly is), but otherwise I do not see any nit I would want to pick.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

It's for rescue vessels, mining vessels, usually mounted on small craft with built-in grapple arms. It's just a "turret sized" weapon to cut through "ship sized" objects, like the previously mentioned asteroids and space hulks. It would be sized up dramatically from normal man-portable lasers in GURPS terms, doing on average 20 times the damage of a laser rifle for instance.

In Mongoose, a ships weapons are multiplied by a factor of 50 when used against personnel (page 151 core book, bottom right shaded box), so...
the tripod mounted 7d6 portable mining laser described from belt strike could therefore be divided by 50 when used against ship-sized objects???
Not sure if the correlation fits... I just don't have belt strike or Vargr. But it seems the guys simply lifted the descriptions word-for-word out of those books.

Anyway, turret sized mining lasers do have a small part to play in the Traveller universe.
For instance.... My players want to add a weapon to the ship I'm designing for them that will allow them the opportunity (when it presents itself) to salvage chunks off of space hulks... "We want to have the ability to cut off the engineering section, cram it in our cargo hold, and take it to a junk dealer. We'll just leave the rest of the hull floating in space. Can a normal pulse laser or beam laser do that?" My answer... "Not really, but a mining laser can... let me look it up and I'll get back to you."

Anyway, that is that.
Here are my thoughts, 3 different sized lasers taking up equivalent spaces in a turret...

1 space mining laser 3d6 (x.25 combat) 1MCr
2 space mining laser 5d6 (x.25 combat) 2 MCr
3 space mining laser 7d6 (x.25 combat) 3 MCr

All mining laser Ranges (all ranges get an additional -3 if used in combat)
Docked/clamped/attached/grappled/etc... = +1
Adjacent = +0
Close = -3
Short and longer = NA

 

[rust]

Anyway, turret sized mining lasers do have a small part to play in the Traveller universe.

I have no problem with the use as a cutting laser for rescue or salvage
purposes, only with the use for mining. I simply would not want to be
anywhere near an expanding cloud of vaporized metal and rock, espe-
cially when it hits any surfaces I have paid money for. The dust from a
conventional mining drill, which would also be less power hungry, would
cause considerably less damage.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I would agree with that! 8)

 

[DFW]

So, if we keep it "simple stupid" a turret sized weapon can do 7d6 continuous damage of cutting into a space hulk hull or asteroid in a 6 minute span of time, but if used in combat, it is short ranged and if in the off chance you score a hit, all role 7d6 divide by 4, then subtract armor, sand, etc....

That's STILL double the average damage of a Beam Laser turret weapon for Cr10k. WAY overpowered.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Maybe I made a mistake in my write-up??? Does MCr = Million Credit?

A 1 space mining laser costs 1 million credits.
The most damage it can do in combat is 4 points (4.5 but round down) of damage, AND it's at a minus six (-6) to hit at anything further away than adjacent while used as a combat weapon.

The most a 2 space mining laser can do is 7 points, and the most a 3 space mining laser can do is 10 points. I'm no statistician but it seems the averages would also work out against the mining lasers and for the normal weapons as well.

Of course I'm basing this ONLY on the damage giving in Vargr/belt strike... the 7d6 "personal sized" weapon...

Maybe I can submit this question to the official rules section of the forum?

What would you recommend?

 

[DFW]

Of course I'm basing this ONLY on the damage giving in Vargr/belt strike... the 7d6 "personal sized" weapon...

Maybe I can submit this question to the official rules section of the forum?

What would you recommend?

Well, in Vargr it ISN'T listed as a personal sized weapon. It looks like errata needs to be issued to clarify & harmonize the item in both books.

You can write it up but don't expect any response nor action from Mongoose.

 

[barnest2]

Yeah, the vargyr version (or however you spell it) sounds like it's just missed a few bits. Such as defining it as not being an incredibly powerful ship to ship weapon...

 

[AndrewW]

Maybe I made a mistake in my write-up??? Does MCr = Million Credit?

Yes it does.

Maybe I can submit this question to the official rules section of the forum?

You can though there may not be any response.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

My beltstrike book (pg. 22) says:
"A heavy duty, semi-portable laser specifically designed for mining toleances... is tripod mounted...is far more powerful than a laser rifle... if used as a weapon, rather than for drilling, attacks suffer a -3DM and inflicts 7D6 damage."

It's quite obvious from the context what scale the damage is, due to the comparison to a laser rifle, rather than to, say, a beam laser.

Can't see what all the excitement is about here. This is clearly semi-portable, mass somewhere between 10 and 20. A higher tech version of the pnumatic drills used in mining today.

If you want a heavy mining laser (e.g. to chop a small asteroid on half), you use a ship mounted pulse laser or beam laser.

Simples.

Egil