Travellers Needed! High Guard Updates

[MarcusIII]

as I just

Then this suggested addition wouldn't apply to you, and you can continue to march to your own drum.

As I just stated

 

[Terry Mixon]

as I just

As I just stated

A needless statement, then, really. Every rule can be ignored if you don't use it, so why say anything when you realize it doesn't apply to you?

 

[MarcusIII]

A needless statement, then,

as are yours

 

[Terry Mixon]

as are yours

"I know I am, but what are you?"

Really? Off to the ignore list with you.

 

[MarcusIII]

Really? Off to the ignore list with you.

Sure Pot --> kettle. LMAO!!!! Bu-bye

 

[swordtart]

And yet they must be paid monthly because that is how mortgages work in the game (and in real life). We'll just have to disagree on this one.

I'll just ask you to consider whether the mortgage or any other monthly expenditure changes the cost of J1 Middle Passage. It cost the same regardless of whether you are being carried in a scout, subsidised liner or a lab ship.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I'll just ask you to consider whether the mortgage or any other monthly expenditure changes the cost of J1 Middle Passage. It cost the same regardless of whether you are being carried in a scout, subsidised liner or a lab ship.

But we aren't talking about a J1 passage that only goes 1 parsec no matter what. This is for an H1 passage that might be anywhere from 1 parsec to 10. Equating the two is a logical fallacy. You're free to do as you like, of course, but the two are not the same.

 

[swordtart]

I was merely disconnecting the cost of passage from the capital cost of the ship.

Arbitrage means the cost of 1 Hop will come down to approaching the recurrent cost of conducting plus a small profit margin.

J2 costs more in fuel and in opportunity costs for cargo foregone for a larger drive and fuel. 1Hop does not forgo any of that over a J1 drive.

That even supposes that anyone is particularly interested in travelling 10 parsecs. It seems unlikely that whatever the majority of people could want from a system so far away couldn't be obtained from at least one of the systems closer.

Imperial intelligence would pay handsomely for moving information about enemy dispositions and possibly even moving key personnel, but they have managed without before and are in any case unlikely to contract privately.

I would expect 10 parsec travel to be a niche market.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I was merely disconnecting the cost of passage from the capital cost of the ship.

Arbitrage means the cost of 1 Hop will come down to approaching the recurrent cost of conducting plus a small profit margin.

J2 costs more in fuel and in opportunity costs for cargo foregone for a larger drive and fuel. 1Hop does not forgo any of that over a J1 drive.

That even supposes that anyone is particularly interested in travelling 10 parsecs. It seems unlikely that whatever the majority of people could want from a system so far away couldn't be obtained from at least one of the systems closer.

Imperial intelligence would pay handsomely for moving information about enemy dispositions and possibly even moving key personnel, but they have managed without before and are in any case unlikely to contract privately.

I would expect 10 parsec travel to be a niche market.

It’ll take a long time before costs come down as they won’t be common for a while. In any case, Mongoose needs to expand the tables to cover them as they are introduced.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

It takes two weeks to travel 10 parsecs via Jump 5, compared to one week by Hop-1. Is that worth 20x?
Seems a little overinflated, but I applaud your intent.

 

[Terry Mixon]

It takes two weeks to travel 10 parsecs via Jump 5, compared to one week by Hop-1. Is that worth 20x?
Seems a little overinflated, but I applaud your intent.

Three weeks with the layover, but I hear you. I just extended the chart. Whatever numbers they think are appropriate, they should list them.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Three weeks with the layover, but I hear you. I just extended the chart. Whatever numbers they think are appropriate, they should list them.

I was thinking about being fueled (minimal layover time).
I didn't consider the interpolation, so I see what you did there.

 

[swordtart]

Three weeks with the layover, but I hear you. I just extended the chart. Whatever numbers they think are appropriate, they should list them.

If you are a 2 x 5 parsec jumper you can ensure refuelling is on hand at the midpoint (unrep tender) and layover could be minimal.

 

[Endie]

Then this suggested addition wouldn't apply to you, and you can continue to march to your own drum.

My bet is that you’re the one who will be in a tiny minority: the future described in Singularity applies to people who have completed Singularity and who then decide to carry on playing in the same timeline. Anyone *can* have hop drives in their charted space game if they like: it’s as simple as making the statement. But it’s almost unknown despite them being around in the rulebooks for years.

Why? Because the effects should radically change the game. Lots of us like the classic version of Charted Space and still have a lot of stories to tell in it without radically changing that. There have been hop drive ships in places like JTAS before but we don’t see Mongoose including them in normal modules. I hope they don’t in future, because I’ll just be bored and move past them.

You love doing high tech stuff. That’s your schtick and you post a lot of it, and complain when the rules make it hard (like on refit costs and time). But dismissing MarcusIII like that for holding what will certainly be the majority position is a bit much.

Edit: the Hop Drives, after all, are mentioned at the end of Act 3 (alongside disintegrators, jump inducers and gravity well generators) as something that GMs should only use in their TUs “at great peril to the status quo” because they would “shake the foundations of Charted Space to their cores”. A bit like Virus and the Empress Wave, those universally-loved and widespreadly-adopted elements.

The section “Promethean Fire” is even more explicit about the completely new version of Charted Space that will result.

 

[MongooseMatt]

but we don’t see Mongoose including them in normal modules. I hope they don’t in future,

Absolutely no plans to do so.

 

[Terry Mixon]

My bet is that you’re the one who will be in a tiny minority: the future described in Singularity applies to people who have completed Singularity and who then decide to carry on playing in the same timeline. Anyone *can* have hop drives in their charted space game if they like: it’s as simple as making the statement. But it’s almost unknown despite them being around in the rulebooks for years.

Why? Because the effects should radically change the game. Lots of us like the classic version of Charted Space and still have a lot of stories to tell in it without radically changing that. There have been hop drive ships in places like JTAS before but we don’t see Mongoose including them in normal modules. I hope they don’t in future, because I’ll just be bored and move past them.

You love doing high tech stuff. That’s your schtick and you post a lot of it, and complain when the rules make it hard (like on refit costs and time). But dismissing MarcusIII like that for holding what will certainly be the majority position is a bit much.

Edit: the Hop Drives, after all, are mentioned at the end of Act 3 (alongside disintegrators, jump inducers and gravity well generators) as something that GMs should only use in their TUs “at great peril to the status quo” because they would “shake the foundations of Charted Space to their cores”. A bit like Virus and the Empress Wave, those universally-loved and widespreadly-adopted elements.

The section “Promethean Fire” is even more explicit about the completely new version of Charted Space that will result.

I’m not dismissing him because he holds the mainline view. I’m dismissing him because not every rule or chart needs to be for everyone and his being dismissive of the suggestion rubbed me the wrong way.

I freely admit I am in the minority. I play in a different space. I just want the chart to cover what they are introducing so that I can account for the tech they are teeing up for those of us that do take Singularity and go past it. They made the pitch, I just want to keep that play going.

As for the minuses for parsecs travelled mentioned elsewhere, I have house rules that give bonuses for comfort levels and amenities available that partially balance that out.

The new Vehicle Handbook has comfort levels, which sparked the idea, and I anticipate they will make their way into High Guard as well, at some point, so it’s not too big of a stretch. I hope they make official changes at that point so the upgraded comfort level does have positive DMs for passengers.

As you mentioned earlier, this will be very chaotic when it happens, and you rightly guess that the idea is attractive to me. A slow burn introduction when the political and economic upheaval is on the horizon and the jockeying to keep the genie in the bottle is my bag, and I once again note that I am aware I am in the minority. Nevertheless, they opened the door to this so a little expansion on one table is hardly a big ask when doing what naturally would come next to those who do march down that road.

 

[Endie]

I’m not dismissing him because he holds the mainline view. I understand that and freely admit I am in the minority. I play in a different space. I just want the chart to cover what they are introducing so that I can account for the tech they are teeing up for those of us that do take Singularity and go past it.

As for the minuses for parsecs travelled mentioned elsewhere, I have house rules that give bonuses for comfort levels and amenities available that partially balance that out. The new Vehicle Handbook has comfort levels, and I anticipate they will make their way into High Guard as well, at some point, so it’s not too big of a stretch.

Step back, for a second, from your own preferences. Imagine that you are the editor of a new core rulebook. The author has put all sorts of great and obscure stuff in there, but it's 11 pages over the budget for the book.

You come across a couple of tables on costs per parsec for passengers and freight for hop drives. They're each ten rows plus header and title, and some explanatory text in paragraph form, so between them they take about two thirds of a page, even without art.

"Table 16.1 and 16.2 on page 236," you say. "Are they vital? Will a lot of people use them? I don't see much about hop drives in the rest of the book."

"Not really," is the reply. "They'll only apply to people that run very specific alternate universe games, or who run through Singularity and then decide to keep playing in that setting after the adventure, instead of using any other published material for the game, because like the author says, it changes everything and the premises for a lot of published adventures and settings break. So a handful of people."

You know that if you are that editor, out they go.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Step back, for a second, from your own preferences. Imagine that you are the editor of a new core rulebook. The author has put all sorts of great and obscure stuff in there, but it's 11 pages over the budget for the book.

You come across a couple of tables on costs per parsec for passengers and freight for hop drives. They're each ten rows plus header and title, and some explanatory text in paragraph form, so between them they take about two thirds of a page, even without art.

"Table 16.1 and 16.2 on page 236," you say. "Are they vital? Will a lot of people use them? I don't see much about hop drives in the rest of the book."

"Not really," is the reply. "They'll only apply to people that run very specific alternate universe games, or who run through Singularity and then decide to keep playing in that setting after the adventure, instead of using any other published material for the game, because like the author says, it changes everything and the premises for a lot of published adventures and settings break. So a handful of people."

You know that if you are that editor, out they go.

This thread is to suggest ideas. That isn’t explicitly what was originally asked for, but it is what it has grown to. That’s what I did. If they don’t use my idea, that’s fine and I’ll make up my own rule. It doesn’t make giving the suggestion a waste of time. We should all suggest what we want because they won’t know if we don’t. There is no need to be dismissive of the suggestions because they were made (not you).

 

[mavikfelna]

Step back, for a second, from your own preferences. Imagine that you are the editor of a new core rulebook. The author has put all sorts of great and obscure stuff in there, but it's 11 pages over the budget for the book.

You come across a couple of tables on costs per parsec for passengers and freight for hop drives. They're each ten rows plus header and title, and some explanatory text in paragraph form, so between them they take about two thirds of a page, even without art.

"Table 16.1 and 16.2 on page 236," you say. "Are they vital? Will a lot of people use them? I don't see much about hop drives in the rest of the book."

"Not really," is the reply. "They'll only apply to people that run very specific alternate universe games, or who run through Singularity and then decide to keep playing in that setting after the adventure, instead of using any other published material for the game, because like the author says, it changes everything and the premises for a lot of published adventures and settings break. So a handful of people."

You know that if you are that editor, out they go.

So make them available as errata online where it doesn't take page count but everyone still has access. It's important enough it should be covered in an official manner, even if the ultimate number of users is low.
This is why I'm constantly asking for clarification and rulings, these things matter, they affect my game play, and they are things that need official statements.

 

[Perkanis83]

I mean just put it in singularity on release,,, problem solved