Traveller XP
- Thread starter EricPaq
- Start date
Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
I don't think there's an experience system in the 3.2 doc.EricPaq said:
Dunno :lol:
Options:
Use the one in CT (if you have access to it);
Use the one in MT (ditto);
Make one up.
Personally, I used to give my players 1 exp point per *successful* use of a skill (I would never give more than 1 exp point, even if the result could have been classed as a "spectacular success" result). Once they hit 100 exp points in a particular skill, I let them upgrade the skill by one level (Skateboarding-1 becomes Skateboarding-2). I didn't penalise for any unsuccessful use of a skill (i.e. take an exp point away for an epik phail) as I consider that the character would put the failure down to experience (pun intended) and learn from the mistake. Also I felt (and feel) it's a very petty thing for a Ref to do to a player, especially when a character has just unintentionally blown themselves up with a grenade.
I never looked at ways of making players lose their character's exp points in a skill as a result of never using a particular skill though.
EricPaq said:
It did, sort of; basically you tried to upgrade two of your skills over a four( :shock: !!!) year period and then made rolls for each of them. If you rolled successfully one ( :?: :roll: ) of these skills got upgraded.
Personally I'd go with Gruffty's system.
Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
Here ya go:
SKILL POINTS
Accumulating Skill Points (SP): During game play, each time a player’s character successfully uses a skill, the Referee should award one skill point in the skill used. This should apply to all skills used during play. Players and characters must not receive more than one SP per successful skill use, even if the task system in use during the game includes ‘exceptional success’ or ‘critical success’ results, as this will rapidly unbalance the SP system.
Successful Skill Use: The use of a skill can be classed as being successful when the player achieves the target number or higher when throwing for the task. The Referee should determine if the skill was successfully used and should apply common sense to the task and situation at hand. Thus, during a game, every time a character fires a weapon and hits the intended target (regardless of weapon damage inflicted) the Referee should award one SP to the player’s character.
Unsuccessful Skill Use: SPs must not be given by the Referee for tasks that are not successful. Conversly, characters should not lose SPs when they fail in an attempt at using a particular skill. Instead, the player should take the view that the character has learned something from the unsuccessful skill use that will benefit the character when using the skill next time.
Number of SPs Required: As characters advance in skill, it should become more difficult to accumulate SPs to convert to the next level of skill. This is because, as skill levels can be applied as +DMs when throwing for tasks and thus increase the chance of a successful use of a skill, a linear progression of 100 SPs per level of skill would allow characters to rapidly gain skill levels up to level 4 or 5. Consequently, the Skill Points Table uses an increasing scale of the number of points required to convert SPs into skill levels, which slows down the progression from one skill level to another by requiring higher numbers of SPs for each increase in skill level.
Converting SPs: Once a character has the correct number of SPs in a particular skill, the character’s player can convert their character’s SPs for an increase of one skill level in the skill in which the SPs were accumulated. The Skill Points Table indicates the required number of SPs needed to increase a skill by one level.
For example: A character has Vacc Suit-0 skill and has accumulated 100 SPs in that skill. They may convert their 100 SPs into Vacc Suit-1 skill before the game starts.
SPs should not be converted to skill levels during the course of a game, as this will unbalance game play and cause problems between players. SP/skill level conversions must only occur before the game has started and should be carried out with the Referee present.
Once a character’s SPs have been converted into a skill level, they must start accumulating SPs again by starting at 0 SPs.
Loss of SPs over Time: Characters that do not regularly use a particular skill should lose SPs at the rate appropriate to the current skill level, as shown in the Skill Points Table. For example: a character has Pilot-3 skill and 276 SPs in Pilot skill. The character is stranded on a planet without access to a starship and will lose SPs at the rate of 4 SPs a week until they have 0 SPs or until they begin to pilot a starship again. In this case, the character would have to be stranded without access to a starship for 69 weeks (or approximately one year and three months) before they end up with Pilot-3 skill and 0 SPs.
Once a character has 0 SPs in a skill they cannot lose any further SPs or skill levels. The example stranded starship pilot would still have Pilot-3 skill on being rescued, but would have 0 SPs at Pilot-3 level if they remained stranded for the full 69 weeks. Characters can begin to accumulate SPs in a skill once they start using the skill, even after losing SPs over time through non-use of the skill. This applies to all skills.
SKILL POINTS
Accumulating Skill Points (SP): During game play, each time a player’s character successfully uses a skill, the Referee should award one skill point in the skill used. This should apply to all skills used during play. Players and characters must not receive more than one SP per successful skill use, even if the task system in use during the game includes ‘exceptional success’ or ‘critical success’ results, as this will rapidly unbalance the SP system.
Successful Skill Use: The use of a skill can be classed as being successful when the player achieves the target number or higher when throwing for the task. The Referee should determine if the skill was successfully used and should apply common sense to the task and situation at hand. Thus, during a game, every time a character fires a weapon and hits the intended target (regardless of weapon damage inflicted) the Referee should award one SP to the player’s character.
Unsuccessful Skill Use: SPs must not be given by the Referee for tasks that are not successful. Conversly, characters should not lose SPs when they fail in an attempt at using a particular skill. Instead, the player should take the view that the character has learned something from the unsuccessful skill use that will benefit the character when using the skill next time.
Number of SPs Required: As characters advance in skill, it should become more difficult to accumulate SPs to convert to the next level of skill. This is because, as skill levels can be applied as +DMs when throwing for tasks and thus increase the chance of a successful use of a skill, a linear progression of 100 SPs per level of skill would allow characters to rapidly gain skill levels up to level 4 or 5. Consequently, the Skill Points Table uses an increasing scale of the number of points required to convert SPs into skill levels, which slows down the progression from one skill level to another by requiring higher numbers of SPs for each increase in skill level.
Converting SPs: Once a character has the correct number of SPs in a particular skill, the character’s player can convert their character’s SPs for an increase of one skill level in the skill in which the SPs were accumulated. The Skill Points Table indicates the required number of SPs needed to increase a skill by one level.
For example: A character has Vacc Suit-0 skill and has accumulated 100 SPs in that skill. They may convert their 100 SPs into Vacc Suit-1 skill before the game starts.
SPs should not be converted to skill levels during the course of a game, as this will unbalance game play and cause problems between players. SP/skill level conversions must only occur before the game has started and should be carried out with the Referee present.
Once a character’s SPs have been converted into a skill level, they must start accumulating SPs again by starting at 0 SPs.
Loss of SPs over Time: Characters that do not regularly use a particular skill should lose SPs at the rate appropriate to the current skill level, as shown in the Skill Points Table. For example: a character has Pilot-3 skill and 276 SPs in Pilot skill. The character is stranded on a planet without access to a starship and will lose SPs at the rate of 4 SPs a week until they have 0 SPs or until they begin to pilot a starship again. In this case, the character would have to be stranded without access to a starship for 69 weeks (or approximately one year and three months) before they end up with Pilot-3 skill and 0 SPs.
Once a character has 0 SPs in a skill they cannot lose any further SPs or skill levels. The example stranded starship pilot would still have Pilot-3 skill on being rescued, but would have 0 SPs at Pilot-3 level if they remained stranded for the full 69 weeks. Characters can begin to accumulate SPs in a skill once they start using the skill, even after losing SPs over time through non-use of the skill. This applies to all skills.
Code:
SKILL POINTS TABLE
From To
Skill Skill SPs SPs Lost Due to
Level: Level: Required Non-Use of Skill
-----------------------------------------
0 1 100 0.5 SP every week
1 2 200 1 SP every week
2 3 400 2 SPs every week
3 4 800 4 SPs every week
4 5 1,600 8 SPs every weekGruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
Note that the above SP system does not affect the rules for Level-0 skill use (i.e. no -DM) - characters still need to have Vacc Suit-1 (for example) to get a +1 DM to any Vacc Suit related task or throw. Also, it's the players' responsibility to keep track of how many SPs a character has in each skill, not the Referee's.
Newly generated characters that are 'fresh out the book' slot into this system at the relevant point. So your ex-Imperial Marine (say from LBB 4 or Mongoose Traveller) with Gauss Rilfe-3 has to get 800 SPs to convert that skill to Gauss Rifle-4, and loses SPs at the rate of 4 SPs a week when not using the skill.
Finally, I don't think it's wise to extend the Skill Points Table to skill levels above 5, as skill-5 is actually a bloody good skill level to start off with!
Newly generated characters that are 'fresh out the book' slot into this system at the relevant point. So your ex-Imperial Marine (say from LBB 4 or Mongoose Traveller) with Gauss Rilfe-3 has to get 800 SPs to convert that skill to Gauss Rifle-4, and loses SPs at the rate of 4 SPs a week when not using the skill.
Finally, I don't think it's wise to extend the Skill Points Table to skill levels above 5, as skill-5 is actually a bloody good skill level to start off with!
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Interesting system Gruffty, I think for the most part, it would work well in most games. The only thing I would add is some kind of "action" a character can take to not loose points.
Question: Does use of a skill that does not require a roll just "hold" the points without adding to them?
Daniel
Question: Does use of a skill that does not require a roll just "hold" the points without adding to them?
Daniel
Well, I think I would change the skill point loss over time from "weeks"
to "months", because otherwise some of the less often used skills (e.g.
Broker) might be almost impossible to improve - the character could
lose the skill points faster than he could gain them.
And I would probably cap the skill increase by experience at Level-3,
and would use the Instruction skill only for all further increases, becau-
se it seems realistic to me that a character needs instruction by a true
expert to become an expert himself.
But these are just ideas, I will have to make some "test runs" to see
whether they have any value.
to "months", because otherwise some of the less often used skills (e.g.
Broker) might be almost impossible to improve - the character could
lose the skill points faster than he could gain them.
And I would probably cap the skill increase by experience at Level-3,
and would use the Instruction skill only for all further increases, becau-
se it seems realistic to me that a character needs instruction by a true
expert to become an expert himself.
But these are just ideas, I will have to make some "test runs" to see
whether they have any value.
Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
You've got a valid point there, actually, and one that I hadn't considered properly. The system is based on 'long-term' (i.e. years, rather than months/weeks/days) loss of skill through non-use concept (hence the Pilot-3 example). I'll give it some thought but would welcome any ideas for this from others hereabouts.dafrca said:
That "feels" a tad unfair IMO. If a character uses a skill but doesn't need to make a throw, and the outcome of the skill use is still *successful*, then the character can still gain 1 SP.
Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
Again, a very valid point, rust. Reflecting on the timescale for SP loss, xSP loss per week does seem excessive, especially at the higher skill levels. Thanks for pointing that outrust said:
I was thinking about that idea myself, and would agree that allowing characters to get to skill-5 by pure experience alone is probably *not* a wise idea!
I had completely forgotten about Instruction skill
Yes, Instruction skill must have a role in advancing skills.
I think the points raised by yourself and dacra are very valid and should certainly be given due consideration.
Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
Thanks for spotting that, Aramis - I'd missed it completelyAKAramis said:
Oh well, it was a nice idea It still is a nice idea. After comparing the two approaches, I still ve-
ry much prefer Gruffty's proposal, because it offers a direct connection
between successful use of a skill, experience and skill improvement.
To me this seems far more logical and realistic than basing learning by
experience on anything like group decisions about memorable scenes.
ry much prefer Gruffty's proposal, because it offers a direct connection
between successful use of a skill, experience and skill improvement.
To me this seems far more logical and realistic than basing learning by
experience on anything like group decisions about memorable scenes.
SableWyvern
Mongoose
I'm planning to use a slightly more fleshed out version of the playtest system:
At any given time, a character can focus on the development of two skills or characteristics. For each month of game time spent in training (approximately 5 hours a week for skills and 10 hours a week for characteristics is required), the character gains one experience point towards advancment in an area being trained. The player may allocate one extra point per game session. If a skill is not trained sufficiently over the course of a month, one XP is lost from that skill, although accrued XPs will not fall below half of their peak value.
Skill Advancment
The character's skill training threshhold is calculated by adding together all existing skill levels (counting 0-Level skills as half a rank). The training target for any given skill is equal to the STT + 2 x the target rank. For example, if a character has a STT of 14 and is training his Gun Combat/Slug Pistol skill, which is currently at level 1, his training target is 14 + 2 x 2 = 18.
A character gains a temporary +1 improvement to a skill when his XP reach half his training target. When XP reach the training target, the increase becomes permanent, and no longer degrades through missed training. The character's STT is updated at this point as well.
When training in an entirely new skill, the training target is the STT + 10. The character gains the skill at Level-0 when his XP reach one quarter of his training target. Because XP cannot fall lower than half the peak value, this increase becomes permanent when the character has aquired XP equal to half his training target.
When training a skill that is already at 0-Level, the character begins with XP equal to one quarter of his training target.
Characteristic Advancement
The training target for a characteristic increase is equal to the characteristic's current value plus eight. Upon reaching the training target, the character may roll to see if his characteristic increases by one point. This is a 2d6 roll with a target of 9, from which the current characteristic DM is subtracted (so, positive DMs act as penalties, and negative DMs as bonuses).
If the character fails to achieve a characteristic increase, he may make further rolls each time he accrues another 8XP towards that characteristic.
At any given time, a character can focus on the development of two skills or characteristics. For each month of game time spent in training (approximately 5 hours a week for skills and 10 hours a week for characteristics is required), the character gains one experience point towards advancment in an area being trained. The player may allocate one extra point per game session. If a skill is not trained sufficiently over the course of a month, one XP is lost from that skill, although accrued XPs will not fall below half of their peak value.
Skill Advancment
The character's skill training threshhold is calculated by adding together all existing skill levels (counting 0-Level skills as half a rank). The training target for any given skill is equal to the STT + 2 x the target rank. For example, if a character has a STT of 14 and is training his Gun Combat/Slug Pistol skill, which is currently at level 1, his training target is 14 + 2 x 2 = 18.
A character gains a temporary +1 improvement to a skill when his XP reach half his training target. When XP reach the training target, the increase becomes permanent, and no longer degrades through missed training. The character's STT is updated at this point as well.
When training in an entirely new skill, the training target is the STT + 10. The character gains the skill at Level-0 when his XP reach one quarter of his training target. Because XP cannot fall lower than half the peak value, this increase becomes permanent when the character has aquired XP equal to half his training target.
When training a skill that is already at 0-Level, the character begins with XP equal to one quarter of his training target.
Characteristic Advancement
The training target for a characteristic increase is equal to the characteristic's current value plus eight. Upon reaching the training target, the character may roll to see if his characteristic increases by one point. This is a 2d6 roll with a target of 9, from which the current characteristic DM is subtracted (so, positive DMs act as penalties, and negative DMs as bonuses).
If the character fails to achieve a characteristic increase, he may make further rolls each time he accrues another 8XP towards that characteristic.
Upon a reread of the draft 3.2 XP rules...
It might not be group consensus. It could easily be individual choice with GM approval. There also is a limit on how many are allowed to have experience at once. (ISTR 6 skills).
It is quite simple. By not tracking XP losses, etc, it simplifies the whole issue. I like simple.
It's also slow enough that it doesn't unbalance. I like balance.
(It was originally number of skills + total skill levels! A bit too slow.)
It might not be group consensus. It could easily be individual choice with GM approval. There also is a limit on how many are allowed to have experience at once. (ISTR 6 skills).
It is quite simple. By not tracking XP losses, etc, it simplifies the whole issue. I like simple.
It's also slow enough that it doesn't unbalance. I like balance.
(It was originally number of skills + total skill levels! A bit too slow.)
