Traveller, TAS, and AI

[boggo2300]

Prove it is stolen. I have yet to see any proof of this often made claim.
All the legal cases and all the evidence to date has debunked this theft claim.
Artist learn by copying the art of other artists.

how do you think they get the images it's "trained" on??? magic? they scour the web and grab pictures, irregardless of the artists requirements for copying them... no proof? they've been sued multiple times, succsesfully, why do you think the UK government is being pressured into changing copyright laws to allow them to steal it?

 

[MongooseMatt]

I am happy to support Mongoose in their ethical stance, they are perhaps the most ethical game company I know of. But I don't have to agree

That is actually appreciated. Thank you

 

[MongooseMatt]

How is providing free artwork not the same as using AI artwork, they both cost the artist their livelihood.

That is the artist's choice, and there have always been artists who have chosen to give their art to the world.

However, this is a good point - perhaps we ought to make a more determined effort to create art packs for TAS publishers.

Corporations never credit their workers, the IP always goes to the company, or at least is has done so since Edison showed how to do it.

Ah, but what if the corporation is then given to the workers, eh?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Well, if mixed use is against the rules for Commercial TAS work, does this apply to mainstream Mongoose publications as well?

We don't use AI to generate art or text.

For the enhancement tools you are talking about, I am going to go with no... but at some point we will need to look at what actually is and is not AI (simply slapping an AI legend on a tool - or anything - does not automatically make it AI). But yes, this is an area that will need careful study in the coming years.

Like the comics?

Not our work but a licensed product - but, again yes, this is something we will be looking at.

 

[middenface]

However, this is a good point - perhaps we ought to make a more determined effort to create art packs for TAS publishers.

I'm on the case, done two packs already.

 

[boggo2300]

I'm on the case, done two packs already.

I've loved your ships since the very first time I stumbled on your Blog, I REALLY love your Patrol Cruiser/Corvette!!!

 

[Sigtrygg]

how do you think they get the images it's "trained" on??? magic? they scour the web and grab pictures, irregardless of the artists requirements for copying them...

So I have read, yet to see it proven in a court of law. If it is then it is definitely theft, if on the other hand the AI only learns from legally available art then will you change your stance?

no proof? they've been sued multiple times, succsesfully, why do you think the UK government is being pressured into changing copyright laws to allow them to steal it?

Where are the successful law suits, I can only find rebuttals and pending cases...

show me the evidence, or point me to where I can find it because so far I have not found any. I am more than happy to see it as proven theft.

 

[Sigtrygg]

That is the artist's choice, and there have always been artists who have chosen to give their art to the world.

If the art is free then ther is a struggling artist being put out of work, if the art is not free the struggling publisher is out of work because they can't afford the artist - both lose?

However, this is a good point - perhaps we ought to make a more determined effort to create art packs for TAS publishers.

It would certainly help those you commission the art from and those who can't afford to do so themselves. Win/win?

Ah, but what if the corporation is then given to the workers, eh?

Lol, I see what you did there. I ddin't want to go on a long rant about how chemists have been done out of a lot of money because the company that employs them gets the IP - nylon, kevlar, so many others I could write a book on it, but others already have

 

[DataDwarf]

What did all of these publishers that can only exist with AI art do before 2022?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Used free stuff.

 

[Terry Mixon]

That is the artist's choice, and there have always been artists who have chosen to give their art to the world.

However, this is a good point - perhaps we ought to make a more determined effort to create art packs for TAS publishers.



Ah, but what if the corporation is then given to the workers, eh?

And for them and people that want to buy art to use in their VTT games. Tokens, too.

Finding art for NPCs can be a huge pain. I’d pay for the privilege of having Traveller art of people to use for them.

 

[rinku]

We are probably in a twilight age where it is still practical to spot AI art,...so rage against the dying of the light, my friends.

Generative AI is just kindergarten scribblings. College level is coming.

And... while I am pleased to see Mongoose supporting human artists this way, all artists short of the most avant-garde are copying someone or something. Commercial art pretty much requires sticking to approved styles.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

That is the artist's choice, and there have always been artists who have chosen to give their art to the world.

However, this is a good point - perhaps we ought to make a more determined effort to create art packs for TAS publishers.



Ah, but what if the corporation is then given to the workers, eh?

Yes! If we had an art pack for TAS, I would use that.
It was the lack of available art that guided me to AI tools.

DriveThruRPG doesn’t give you “Bestseller” credit for free downloads- that fact alone keeps me from Fair Use

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

What did all of these publishers that can only exist with AI art do before 2022?

Didn’t publish, because our product didn’t look professional enough

 

[boggo2300]

We are probably in a twilight age where it is still practical to spot AI art,...so rage against the dying of the light, my friends.

Generative AI is just kindergarten scribblings. College level is coming.

And... while I am pleased to see Mongoose supporting human artists this way, all artists short of the most avant-garde are copying someone or something. Commercial art pretty much requires sticking to approved styles.

well apart from the measured reduction in quality as it begins to scrape it's own nonsense...

 

[OriginalCaruso]

well apart from the measured reduction in quality as it begins to scrape it's own nonsense...

If this comment is true there is nothing to fear over AI generated art

Ultimately consumers will determine what they buy. For me, art has never been a massively important consideration. Early D&D and LBB were not filled with visuals and there was no great outcry at the absence of art at the time of original publication

However, I do respect and support Mongoose stance on only using human generated art

 

[Hardwire]

I think some people who want to justify using AI to "create" are trying to muddy the waters.

Europe has some scary rules about copyrights. AI has a bad habit of "sampling" the work of others in much the same way that too many rappers a few decades ago used to "sample" the works of others by including way too much of those works in their "art" and then not wanting to pay royalties.
They don't want AI generated images. They want YOUR images, or those of a paid/volunteer human. If you cannot make or buy art, don't try to sell "art." They don't want AI generated plots. They want YOUR plots. If you can't generate plots then you should not make adventure modules your line of work or even a side hustle. They don't want AI writing your text. They want YOUR text. If you can't write, do something else. It really isn't that hard.
Trying to claim they want to eliminate proofreading or pre-project research or googling something is just a strawman argument.

So let me get this straight, Since I am not a writer, artist of professional content creator, I have no viable creative ideas. Since I lack the skill to write it down myself, there is no way my thought and creativity is worth trying to put out there.

 

[Arkathan]

So let me get this straight, Since I am not a writer, artist of professional content creator, I have no viable creative ideas. Since I lack the skill to write it down myself, there is no way my thought and creativity is worth trying to put out there.

Reread for comprehension. If it is not YOUR work, don't try to sell it.
Use it if you like. Share it unofficially if others are interested.
Trying to sell something you didn't create is like prodnalog. With similar results for those who ACTUALLY produce, and many others down stream of the supply chain. In addition to destroying motivation to create, cutting off avenues for self actualization, it makes people that much more dumb. We have quite enough of that already.
1984 and Idiocracy were not meant to be Templates for society. They were warnings.

 

[Hardwire]

Reread for comprehension. If it is not YOUR work, don't try to sell it.
Use it if you like. Share it unofficially if others are interested.
Trying to sell something you didn't create is like prodnalog. With similar results for those who ACTUALLY produce, and many others down stream of the supply chain. In addition to destroying motivation to create, cutting off avenues for self actualization, it makes people that much more dumb. We have quite enough of that already.
1984 and Idiocracy were not meant to be Templates for society. They were warnings.

Creativity is far more then just having the ability and skills to express that creativity. Creativity is thought and ingenuity put behind a project. Yes creating the end product is part of creating something but it is only a part of it.

If I came up with the idea and the ingenuity behind it, it is MY work, as the idea is the beginning of any product, and using a tool to put that idea out there doesn't change that.

 

[Arkathan]

Creativity is far more then just having the ability and skills to express that creativity. Creativity is thought and ingenuity put behind a project. Yes creating the end product is part of creating something but it is only a part of it.

If I came up with the idea and the ingenuity behind it, it is MY work, as the idea is the beginning of any product, and using a tool to put that idea out there doesn't change that.

If it is your creativity, then why are you arguing with me over someone else's policy?
If it is a computer (edit: specifically AI) doing your creativity for you, then selling it is the Participation Trophy mentality.
I don't sell my stuff because I don't consider it professional enough to sell. When I have sold art, it was because people came to me and asked.
That doesn't mean I don't put my ideas out there.