Traveller miniatures, starships/characters...

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Mongoose
Hiya,

I just read in the 2000AD forum that Mongoose will be releasing a line of 2000AD miniatures, and I was just wondering what is the likelihood that they'll do something similar for regular Traveller? I have some of the (very) old Grenadier Traveller boxed sets, and some of the ship minis issued during the days of TNE, but would love to see something new put out.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
 
The kinds of minis I'd like are starship minis, as well as minis of the more unique Traveller aliens such as Droyne and Hivers. There is a very wide selection of sci-fi human miniatures already available from a multitude of producers (from GZG to Khurasan), as well as feline and canine aliens, but Droyne and Hivers are more unique.
 
That’s one of the reasons we don’t have Licensed Traveller figures, it always you can make due, with this one here or there, or you can just modify this one. Are there substitutes, yes, but should we really have to? I’m have rattled off substitutes and websites for many on other sites, and I have used Hydrospan and Hydroshrink to adapt old figures 25mm to 30mm and fixed poor collectable flexible rubber trash figures to new resin glory, but should I have to.

I just want to game with figures that are Traveller figures, no light sabers, no steroid abusers, no Rodian bounty hunters, no Vargr giants that are 35mm tall, just normal Traveller figures. Using good nicely painted miniatures is like sex once you have it, you’re never the same, you appreciate the art and spatial sense it brings, but if you don’t have licensed miniatures, that are easy to find, using miniatures becomes esoteric.
 
Bishop Odo said:
I just want to game with figures that are Traveller figures, no light sabers, no steroid abusers, no Rodian bounty hunters, no Vargr giants that are 35mm tall, just normal Traveller figures. Using good nicely painted miniatures is like sex once you have it, you’re never the same, you appreciate the art and spatial sense it brings, but if you don’t have licensed miniatures, that are easy to find, using miniatures becomes esoteric.

I still agree with you. Make the figures about 25-28 mm, NO and I mean NO 30 mm bases (thank you not at all Reaper minis), and make them normal-clothing people for both men and women and aliens.

Though Reaper actually could do that...
 
Let's sing this shall we, we have Hasslefee, Haresey, Infinity, Black Tree, Darksons, Reaper, Grenadier, RAFM, Wizkids, Wizards of the Coast, Denizens, i-Kore, Ral Partha, Ironwind, Martian Miniatures, Mega Miniatures, GHQ, Sim-Teck, T-Rex, Stan Johnanson, Laser Burn, Dr. Who, GW, and Mongoose.

Now and apologist or bean counter will looks a just numbers and be impressed, and scream at me that I’m delusional and a liar. But while everyone of these lines has something that can be, at one time, used as a Traveller miniatures, some are 15mm, true 25mm, 25mm, true 28mm and heroic 28mm, and go to 30mm if not 32mm, you can see the problem, scale maters to some people, not to mention "quality." There are some figures out there that look like fishing sinkers, others are great, but quality and continuity matter. Some are collectors’ figures and fetch a pretty penny on eBay. Many are pirated by, some on eBay, because there are “collectors” that seem to have and endless supply of miniatures.

Sure you can make due, if you can resculpt clothes or do conversion and turn Gnolls into “space wolves, or Vargr. How do you promote using miniatures in a game if you make them like hen’s teeth to find? We can do better, but every time this comes up, it make due.

In the past few years, a small company made an attempt at making Traveller miniatures, and surprisingly, there was an unbelievable level of incompetence that doomed the attempt to failure. First the company has a predilection for producing old out of scale miniatures, just like Reaper did at first, but Reaper used the old lines, at first to bank roll, it future lines by hiring first rate sculptors and making them the figure to have, smart. This company did the exact opposite, it stuck to the old scale, 25mm, and yes miniatures scale have evolved, and there is a big difference between true 25mm and 25mm. They hired a no name to sculpt them, and they where made in limited numbers and yes limited sculpting quality as well. The first set was Vargrs and they sold out fast, the rest Dryone, K’Kree, lingered and Finially the Bwaps…the freeking Bwaps. Bwaps, the race of Galactic paper pushers. Who choose these figures, someone who never played the game for one…..and the attempt at Traveller figures died, because of Idiocy? Same thing about making ship models, sure there cool, but in terms of gaming you would use Characters miniatures, what ten or twenty times more then ship miniatures. Unless you are using them in a tactical space combat game, but they made two, not really enough to use in a space game, wasted time and money.

So, the bean counters will look at the numbers as the only facts and never see the more esoteric relevant issues and hence we will never have Traveller miniatures. As long as we just make due and we are quite little sheep and not voicing our wants and needs.
 
Jame Rowe said:
Bishop Odo said:
I just want to game with figures that are Traveller figures, no light sabers, no steroid abusers, no Rodian bounty hunters, no Vargr giants that are 35mm tall, just normal Traveller figures. Using good nicely painted miniatures is like sex once you have it, you’re never the same, you appreciate the art and spatial sense it brings, but if you don’t have licensed miniatures, that are easy to find, using miniatures becomes esoteric.

I still agree with you. Make the figures about 25-28 mm, NO and I mean NO 30 mm bases (thank you not at all Reaper minis), and make them normal-clothing people for both men and women and aliens.

Though Reaper actually could do that...


Scale is another point, how do you get people to buy new figures? Scale creep it’s inevitable, and we are all victims of it, like planed obsolescence but by, using the quality of sculpting and the promise of continuity, you lessen the sting of having to buy new figures. So, I don’t blame Reaper, after all they are pretty consistent in there offerings.
 
Bishop Odo said:
So, the bean counters will look at the numbers as the only facts and never see the more esoteric relevant issues and hence we will never have Traveller miniatures. As long as we just make due and we are quite little sheep and not voicing our wants and needs.
To be fair, it may not be entirely the bean counters at the mini manufacturers who are at fault. It's my understanding that there are some licensing issues as well. The Traveller miniatures license has bounced all over the place, which seems to have created some issues.

I have no inside information, but based on some exchanges I had with various people (including a minis manufacturer) a couple years back, my impression is that the license to create Traveller miniatures is no longer a cut & dry business arrangement entitling someone to make an entire line, probably because of the number of companies who've been associated with Traveller in some form or another over the years.

If that's truly the case, I'd stay away from the license too regardless of the profit potential, simply because of possible the legal pitfalls.
 
I'm all for 15mm. I've thought for a while that Ground Zero Games would be a good manufacturer for them. The already make good figures in both 15mm and 25mm, and are good at working with, or around, licenses.
 
If anyone finds any 28mm Vargr or Aslan stand-ins, please let me know! I've looked all over (best I could find were fantasy lycanthropes or "catgirls").
 
I agree on the 15mm, but would prefer not factory painted. I don't care much between plastic or metal if the plastic is rigid, like what was used on the Starship Troopers minis.

Sevya
 
I still can’t figure why Mongoose can do Judge Dread miniatures and not Traveller. Is Judge Dread outselling Traveller, or is this some pet project of the owners.
 
Bishop Odo said:
I still can’t figures why Mongoose can do Judge Dread miniatures and not Traveller. Is Judge Dread outselling Traveller, or is this some pet project of the owners.
As has already been mentioned, it could well be a license problem. Some
time ago I tried to find out who currently has that license, but gave up in
frustration, because the available informations where extremely confusing
- it could well be that only Marc Miller himself has any idea who may or
may not produce Traveller miniatures.
 
rust said:
Bishop Odo said:
I still can’t figures why Mongoose can do Judge Dread miniatures and not Traveller. Is Judge Dread outselling Traveller, or is this some pet project of the owners.
As has already been mentioned, it could well be a license problem. Some
time ago I tried to find out who currently has that license, but gave up in
frustration, because the available informations where extremely confusing
- it could well be that only Marc Miller himself has any idea who may or
may not produce Traveller miniatures.

I just don’t buy the License confusion as an issue, to much money involved, and it’s a convent excuse to feed fans.

I have seen game publishers at GAMA, dissemble under the guise of “customer services,” not knowing I had friends in their ranks who had already told me the truth. Let alone, once I signed a NDA you would be amazed at the BS they where slinging at me and the rest of regular folks out there.
 
Bishop Odo said:
I just don’t buy the License confusion as an issue, to much money involved, and it’s a convent excuse to feed fans.

I find it believable that Mongoose could have acquired Traveller print rights from Marc Miller, but not minis or software. I'm not saying this is the truth, just that it could a believable reason.

That being said, if Mongoose can produce Traveller minis, I don't know why they wouldn't. Unless there is a HUGE startup cost, I foresee only quick profit. ( P.S. true 25 mm please :lol: )
 
I'm the one who mentioned license problems as a possible cause.

As I mentioned before, it's not from inside info, nor any line I've been given by anyone in particular. It's my assessment of info and attitudes
I encountered while trying to identify some Traveller minis, their manufacturers and scales, combined with my own knowledge of licensing.

Even without any inside info, it's pretty clear to see how easily the licensing for Traveller minis could be completely f-d up beyond sanity. Licensing is way too easy to let get out of control, and once an IP starts bouncing around with ownership changes, multiple licensses, etc, ooh boy, things can get complicated fast. I don't think anyone can deny that the ownership of the Traveller property in general is confusing, with all the various versions and companies who've produced it or things for it over the years.

A Traveller mini's license has been in the hands of at least six different companies that I know of, two of which are gone as operating companies (but may still exist as IP holders). I say "A license" rather than "The License" because at some point, the licensing seemed to be split between character type miniatures and space ship type miniatures, with Mega Minis making the former, and Ad Astra the latter.

With all the various Traveller licensing and editions over the years, it's entirely possible that there are several claims on who has the right to produce Traveller miniatures, and the situation will only be resolved by companies/people relenquishing those claims or a court battle. Since relenquishing a claim will probably require a payout of some sort and court battles are expensive, it's not worth pursuing.

Or, of course, there could only be one license that's been sub-licensed throughout the years, meaning having to deal with a complex hierarchy to deal with.

Either way, the end result is that the Traveller minis license isn't deemed profitable enough for anyone to pursue. I don't know that licensing issues are the case, or if it's just that the Traveller mini license has had such poor sales historically that it's not deemed worth it. I'd prefer the former over the latter, personally.

Finally, since Mongoose has remained completely mum on this point, then either they don't have the license and either no chance of getting or desire to get it; or they have it, but have determined that they don't want to do it, or are not ready to do it. I, for one, doubt they have it.


I've been wondering if I found myself with the Traveller mini license which scale would really sell the best. Traveller minis have been sold in both 15 and 25mm, but today the prominent scale for minis is 28-30mm. So if you're the company holding the license to do Traveller miniatures, which scale do you pick?

Doing more than one scale dilutes resources and actually hurts the line over all, so you're probably going to have to pick one scale and accept the fact you're going to piss a lot of other Traveller fans off. But the question isn't really which scale has the least fans to piss off, but which scale is going to have the possibility for the best sales over all? My gut tells me that would be 28mm, which will of course piss off a lot of Traveller fans.

I do know that if I were to do a Traveller minis line, regardless of the scale I chose, the first wave would be at least ten minis, and would have to include at least two Hivers, a Zhodani and a Droyne in it. I'll bet that releasing a couple of really well sculpted Hivers would go a long way towards assuaging the tempers of the people who's scale you didn't pick.
 
Mega Minatures has a licence to do Traveller minatures - both characters and starships and characters.

http://theminiaturespage.com/man/mega/

I've seen both their characters and starships - they are very good. They tend to sell quite a few limited edition sets on ebay. I've seen their Bawb set up close and the detail of the fiqures was amazing. Their Vargrs were equally stunning.
 
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