Traveller Integrated Timeline

I suspect your wiki link should link to:

Traveller Integrated Timeline - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com wiki.travellerrpg.com

It states that the Timeline is the work of this guy:

Donald McKinney - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com wiki.travellerrpg.com

His work now seems to be available on archive.org:

Maybe the copyright has ended? I dunno - I can remove link, if not.
 
Limpin Legin said:
I suspect your wiki link should link to:

Traveller Integrated Timeline - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com wiki.travellerrpg.com

It states that the Timeline is the work of this guy:

Donald McKinney - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com wiki.travellerrpg.com

His work now seems to be available on archive.org:

Maybe the copyright has ended? I dunno - I can remove link, if not.
Click to expand...
That timeline is amazing! Don is an archival badass! Wow this is nice work! @MongooseMatt Is there anyway this project could be made legal by Mongoose? I don't know Don and don't know how he would feel about this, but this looks like a labor of love that I would hate to see lost to the dustbin of time. Even better if it could be updated and continued, but that is likely too much to hope for, so I would settle for legal status and preservation of this awesome work! :)

Edit - Didn't know Don had passed. :(
 
MasterGwydion said:
That timeline is amazing! Don is an archival badass! Wow this is nice work! @MongooseMatt Is there anyway this project could be made legal by Mongoose? I don't know Don and don't know how he would feel about this, but this looks like a labor of love that I would hate to see lost to the dustbin of time. Even better if it could be updated and continued, but that is likely too much to hope for, so I would settle for legal status and preservation of this awesome work! :)

Edit - Didn't know Don had passed. :(
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I just realized that this might not be possible. Some of the information in here is from Dragon Magazine articles when they were TSR. That could be an issue. (sorry about the pun) ((not really)) :P
 
This is the most comprehensive, an excellent piece of work.

I find the timeline in the MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia to be more useful to me because it gives the dates in several formats, Imperial Year, BC/AD, Aslan, K'kree, Zhodani.
 
Sigtrygg said:
This is the most comprehensive, an excellent piece of work.
Click to expand...

Unquestionably, his archival work is a huge inspiration to myself.
Sadly, due to Don's untimely passing in 2015, the Integrated Traveller Timeline doesn't cover pretty much all of Mongoose 2nd Edition's published books, as they released 2016 onwards, which is part of the reason why I maintain my Traveller Timeline document as a (humble) spiritual successor and complement to his work:
 
GabrielGABFonseca said:
Unquestionably, his archival work is a huge inspiration to myself.
Sadly, due to Don's untimely passing in 2015, the Integrated Traveller Timeline doesn't cover pretty much all of Mongoose 2nd Edition's published books, as they released 2016 onwards, which is part of the reason why I maintain my Traveller Timeline document as a (humble) spiritual successor and complement to his work:
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Thats really nice! I've always drawn a lot of plot hooks from timelines!
 
Sigtrygg said:
Good of you to take this on.
How do you deal with canon conflicts?
Click to expand...

I have chosen not to, actually – when conflicts occur, I note down both instances and simply make note of it, my intention being simply to catalogue, rather than attempt to fix; my reasoning being that this document be used as a resource, or perhaps an index in a sense, by the folks who wish to try and do that themselves.

Actually, that makes for an important addition to the Appendix section. I'll add that in later today.
 
Probably the easiest way to deal with conflicts is to treat it all as historical records rather than omniscient knowledge from the mind of god.

Or space wikipedia ;)
 
rinku said:
Probably the easiest way to deal with conflicts is to treat it all as historical records rather than omniscient knowledge from the mind of god.

Or space wikipedia ;)
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NO!!!!! I hate this! This sucks for anyone actually trying to worldbuild in Charted Space! It is already bad enough that We can't figure out the out-of-game information from the in-game misinformation with the UWPs and other things. Give Us the real info and let Us decide what We want to make into misinformation.

This is the kind of lazy BS that made a mess out of Charted Space and Traveller in general to begin with. Doesn't matter if it's wrong, just say it's in-universe knowledge. Then go on to violate game mechanics.

It is circular logic with some people. Doesn't matter if it is right, treat it as a historical records which may be wrong, while at the same time saying the UWPs are accurate and we have to make up a reason for why they make no sense!

Which is it? Are things accurate and we have to make up reasons for why they make no sense? Or are things inaccurate because they are in-game records which may be inaccurate? If you actually want to play a rules-based game, it cannot be both ways.
 
So you've not dealt with how actual historical documents work much then, MG?

Or does it just trigger you too much to deal with that?

A LOT of the supposed canon is in the form of reports, rumours and records. Every TAS News article is something a journalist has reported on and may be wildly or partially inaccurate. They may well have had the dates quoted given to them wrong. Library Data entries are framed as actual encyclopaedia entries; the wikipedia comparison is accurate.

As an example, the JTAS 2 TAS report about the L-Hyd tanks that sparked much discussion recently isn't even an in-universe primary source. It's a journalist quoting a bloody press release from the shipyard making them in the Marches and the Megacorporation whose ships are using them. Adventure 1 doesn't exactly paint General Shipyards as a paragon of truth and objectivity. Tukera Lines appear to be up to no good.

It all strongly suggests spin, hype and conspiracy, and it being up to the PCs to ferret out the truth if that's how the Referee wants to use the adventure seed presented.

Heck, I'm not even convinced that there are jump tank freighters operating in the core. It's just as likely that Tukera made that up in order to work their plot against Oberlindes in the Marches, or as a smokescreen for what those ships are actually doing.
 
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rinku said:
So you've not dealt with how actual historical documents work much then, MG?
Click to expand...
Historical documents are not used as the basis for a rules-based game.
rinku said:
Or does it just trigger you too much to deal with that?
Click to expand...
Yeah. My neurodivirgent ass likes to know the reality of the game, so I know what is affected by other changes I make. I didn't know until yesterday exactly how big the Vilani Main was. It's massive! When I am working on running a historical game, say set in Milieu 0, if say on a timeline, it says that around -50 3I Sylean nobles were choosing the Vilani Main for their Sabaticals instead of the Sylean Main. I like that to be a fact. Then I can figure out why this change was occurring. It drives Me nuts being halfway through designing a campaign and then find out it doesn't work because it is contradicted by other information. I can't continue and end up scrapping the whole campaign. I need solidity. That is why I play games with rules, instead of things rules-lite and actual backstory-lite like Vampire LARPS.
rinku said:
A LOT of the supposed canon is in the form of reports, rumours and records. Every TAS News article is something a journalist has reported on and may be wildly or partially inaccurate. They may well have had the dates quoted given to them wrong. Library Data entries are framed as actual encyclopaedia entries; the wikipedia comparison is accurate.

As an example, the JTAS 2 TAS report about the L-Hyd tanks that sparked much discussion recently isn't even an in-universe primary source. It's a journalist quoting a bloody press release from the shipyard making them in the Marches and the Megacorporation whose ships are using them. Adventure 1 doesn't exactly paint General Shipyards as a paragon of truth and objectivity. Tukera Lines appear to be up to no good.
Click to expand...
Which means that if We take out every single bit of in-universe information that is not guaranteed true as an out-of-game setting fact, then it seems that We do not have a setting at all.
rinku said:
It all strongly suggests spin, hype and conspiracy, and it being up to the PCs to ferret out the truth if that's how the Referee wants to use the adventure seed presented.
Click to expand...
The PCs can ferret out the truth, the Referee should already know what the truth is.
rinku said:
Heck, I'm not even convinced that there are jump tank freighters operating in the core. It's just as likely that Tukera made that up in order to work their plot against Oberlindes in the Marches, or as a smokescreen for what those ships are actually doing.
Click to expand...
Which means there is never any point in buying a setting book since none of it is true. These is no Third Imperium. No Rule of Man. No Grand Empire of the Stars. No Charted Space. Nothing. It is all rumor and BS. No shared published Universe. Nothing. Might as well just build a universe from scratch. If I wanted that, I would have been a historian or some kind. It is not at all what I want in a game setting that I pay for. Give Me the truth. Give Me the rumors. I am good with both, just let Me know which is which, so I can run My game and not have to make yet another decision on if I use this as published or have to write something new Myself.
 
Correct. It's all fictional. Choose your own adventure.

Look, while most of the setting background material is presented as historical documents or reporting, and thus must be taken with a grain of salt, anything not so presented is different, especially if it's framed as referee's information, as was done in the MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia with the player section and the Referee's notes. That is how you know what is what.

The brutal truth is that no one can ever actually know all the facts. Even a typical city has too many people to fully document, too many secrets to fully expose, too many transactions to account. Everyone has to abstract things just to get through the day in real life, let alone in a game with thousands of planets.

But we can discuss our opinions on it all, just as researchers discuss their data and source documents. Useful conclusions can be drawn from that.
 
rinku said:
Correct. It's all fictional. Choose your own adventure.

Look, while most of the setting background material is presented as historical documents or reporting, and thus must be taken with a grain of salt, anything not so presented is different, especially if it's framed as referee's information, as was done in the MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia with the player section and the Referee's notes. That is how you know what is what.

The brutal truth is that no one can ever actually know all the facts. Even a typical city has too many people to fully document, too many secrets to fully expose, too many transactions to account. Everyone has to abstract things just to get through the day in real life, let alone in a game with thousands of planets.

But we can discuss our opinions on it all, just as researchers discuss their data and source documents. Useful conclusions can be drawn from that.
Click to expand...
I just want to know what really happened and what are just rumors without having to decide the whole setting for myself. In a Timeline, just put the rumors in italics. In a book, just put a little symbol next to the blurb. A Referee can make them real if they want, but future products will treat them as just rumor.
 
You could notate each entry with its in-game source. A Star next to an entry indicates that its Imperial information, likely from the AAB, the old Vilani Grand Repository of Knowledge. I may be misremembering the exact name. Think Library of Alexandria.

Vargr probably have nothing resembling it, probably just handed down Lore from Pack to Pack. They might a have Skull logo for their entries, maybe one for each Pack that contributed.

Aslan might be similar, but more regimented. Clan histories passed on to successive generations. Ship Altars as a written history taking the place of an historical record, requiring emissary summits where each reads the others’ Altars to pass along to the next generations and add to existing Altars. To have witnesses in case a ship with a lot of important history gets lost or destroyed. For their entries Aslan get a… Thundercats logo?

Hivers? Zhodani?… man, that would be a ton of work but pretty damn cool.

Then you can decide which POV is true. Or that they’re all false and there’s totally something else going on. I think that’s the point of vague in-game info about many things - it’s intended be easy for lots of different refs and players to decide how it works best for them.
 
NOLATrav said:
Then you can decide which POV is true. Or that they’re all false and there’s totally something else going on. I think that’s the point of vague in-game info about many things - it’s intended be easy for lots of different refs and players to decide how it works best for them.
Click to expand...
If they contradict though, a Referee cannot say, they are all true. So, right off the bat, every option except the one I want works. From the very beginning, I cannot use what is printed in the books as fact in game.
 
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