Golan2072 said:
Doesn't resolve the one-source problem, and it creates potential issue with OGL/commercial content products.
As I said, we are not against fan publications, but we want to make sure it is done right (basically, we won't rush this
).
Traveller Developer's Pack
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Doesn't resolve the one-source problem, and it creates potential issue with OGL/commercial content products.
As I said, we are not against fan publications, but we want to make sure it is done right (basically, we won't rush this
).Border Reiver
Mongoose
Why not a simple statement that all that all Traveller material herein is unofficial and non-canon.
That would continue to make you the only source for OTU material.
That would continue to make you the only source for OTU material.
Goblinoid Games
Mongoose
Just thought I'd check to see if the SRD has been declared open content yet.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Matt, after reading the OGL and TLL, I am still a bit confused about something.
In the OGL it states that you can reference character stats but not how they are generated, you must reference back to the TMB.
What if I want to create a new alien race, how do I tell people how to generate their stats?
For example, for this alien race, I have decided that Strength is generated as 3D6 and Education is generated with 1D6+6.
To comply with the OGL, which of the methods below would be legal?
1. Generate alien stats per TMB with the following differences:
Strength: Roll 3d6
Education: Roll 1d6+6
2. Generate alien stats per TMB with the following DMs:
Strength: +1d6
Education: Take 1/2 of rolled value (round down) and add 6
(Even though this doesn't give me the distribution curve I want)
3. Generate the alien stats per the TMB as follows:
(I'm pretty sure this is NOT allowed)
Strength: 3d6
Dexterity: 2d6
Endurance: 2d6
Intelligence: 2d6
Education: 1d6+6
Social Status: 2d6
4. Something else
THANX
In the OGL it states that you can reference character stats but not how they are generated, you must reference back to the TMB.
What if I want to create a new alien race, how do I tell people how to generate their stats?
For example, for this alien race, I have decided that Strength is generated as 3D6 and Education is generated with 1D6+6.
To comply with the OGL, which of the methods below would be legal?
1. Generate alien stats per TMB with the following differences:
Strength: Roll 3d6
Education: Roll 1d6+6
2. Generate alien stats per TMB with the following DMs:
Strength: +1d6
Education: Take 1/2 of rolled value (round down) and add 6
(Even though this doesn't give me the distribution curve I want)
3. Generate the alien stats per the TMB as follows:
(I'm pretty sure this is NOT allowed)
Strength: 3d6
Dexterity: 2d6
Endurance: 2d6
Intelligence: 2d6
Education: 1d6+6
Social Status: 2d6
4. Something else
THANX
msprange said:Basically, someone needs to get the guy behind Stellar Reaches to contact me
Good Morning, All:
I've had several people ping me this morning to let me know about this thread. Good thing it's lunch time, so I can post something (new job and all, with tighter web access rules, means I'm not as likely to post quickly, sorry about that.)
At any rate, to let you know my current plan, I was going to put all OTU material/references under the Declaration of Product Identity clause of the OGL, saying that it belongs to Mongoose and MWM, and that we are using it only with permission of Mongoose and MWM under the Fair Use policy for non-commercial works, etc. By listing it as PI, the OGL no longer covers it and the material is expressly forbidden from being released under the OGL elsewhere.
I don't want to lose this safe harbor, so please let me know how you would like this to be handled? You may contact me via my gmail account, or post here. I may not be able to respond until this evening, and for that, I apologize, but I definitely want to take care of this matter, in whatever manner it will be resolved.
With Regards,
Flynn
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
How about this possible idea for fan-created material, "All references to OTU material are:
1) Unofficial,
2) Never permitted to be OGL, and
3) Not allowed to be sold at a cost (with some type of exception made to cover the cost of printing on a POD basis)"?
1) Unofficial,
2) Never permitted to be OGL, and
3) Not allowed to be sold at a cost (with some type of exception made to cover the cost of printing on a POD basis)"?
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
I just realized something ...
Emphasis Mine. So this would mean that OTU can never be released as open materials since no one, not even Mongoose, has rights to release anything as open material. And anyone that tries to do an end run around would be in "breach" of the OGL (OGL, Section 13).
OGL said:
Emphasis Mine. So this would mean that OTU can never be released as open materials since no one, not even Mongoose, has rights to release anything as open material. And anyone that tries to do an end run around would be in "breach" of the OGL (OGL, Section 13).
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
It's the TLL that doesn't allow you to detail the process of generating stats, not the ogl. If you don't need the logo, you can describe character generation.
If you want to use the TLL, you should be on the safe side if you use min/max for the different character stats (Strength: min 3/max 18 - instead of 3d6; Education min 7/max 12 - instead of 1D6+6). The reader has to figure it out on his own and you don't describe a method to create character stats...
M. Lydius Of Phoga
Mongoose
What are some of the Concerns on doing the OTU right? And could not an "OTU Writer's Guide" be compiled pretty easily? Star Trek and the like have basic ground rules for outside writers to maintain a level of continuity.
Vile
Banded Mongoose
In the interests of maintaining this thread more-or-less on topic, I've re-awakened the Stellar Reaches thread for discussion of the fan policy. Sorry to have temporarily derailed this one.
Now. Questions about the SRD: I'm not that familiar with how this whole business works, but
1) If I were to produce a licensed Traveller product, would I be tied to the terms used in the SRD? For example, there are things in there like Jump Drive, X-Boat, Scouts the names of all the Psionic Talents. Or could I use my own names for these?
2) I note that some things are left out of the SRD, like descriptions of government types and spaceship crew requirements. Does this me I can make up my own, or do I have to refer back to the Traveller rule book for those?
Now. Questions about the SRD: I'm not that familiar with how this whole business works, but
1) If I were to produce a licensed Traveller product, would I be tied to the terms used in the SRD? For example, there are things in there like Jump Drive, X-Boat, Scouts the names of all the Psionic Talents. Or could I use my own names for these?
2) I note that some things are left out of the SRD, like descriptions of government types and spaceship crew requirements. Does this me I can make up my own, or do I have to refer back to the Traveller rule book for those?
Yes, you could use your own terms. The only two sets of terms you must keep if you use the TLL (Traveller Logo License) are the names of the characteristics (STR, DEX and so on) and the names of the world attributes (Starport, Size and so on). Also, you can't give a method to generate the 6 base characteristics.Vile said:
Oh, and you can't make any references whatsoever to the OTU.
Other than that, replace what you want.
Vile
Banded Mongoose
And another thing ... any chance of providing those Traveller logos in other colours? I think it would be more appropriate if they related to the type of product - blue for supplements, yellow for adventures. I'm not sure red for rules or green for expansion books would even be applicable to licensees?
Vile said:
As publishers, we need to avoid violating MWM's or Mongoose's trade dress (the look and feel of the product) when we can, and that probably includes using the exact color codes of CT or MGT on OGL products. Specifically, the TLL does mention what we can't do in terms of product cover styles.
Just Offering A Suggestion,
Flynn
Vile
Banded Mongoose
I understand we can't make the cover look like official MGT products, I'm just wondering if the logo could come in different versions (i.e. with different coloured stripes). I don't think that would have any effect on the TLL, as those would be official logos provided by Mongoose.Flynn said:
Just a thought.
M. Lydius Of Phoga
Mongoose
I'm not sure I understand the OTU issue. I can understand the publishers not wanting products coming out that upset the balance of the Traveller setting, or take it places where it shouldn't go, that makes sense.
As a game buyer, I wouldn't pay a dime for someone's reinterpretation of a game book, or optional rules, nor should anyone out there writing expect so. The Mongoose has gone to the trouble of making the book, and they are going to great lengths to accomodate and listen to the fan base. Looking at the rest of thier site, and the games they already publish, I think them a good choice to handle the "official" stuff in that regard. plus, they have the liscence. It's not like rules issues are not examined thouroughly. Its not like the old days when there was no internet.
But I think that the publishers should recognize authors like Flynn. Works like Stellar Reaches and his Robot work are things that fill very necessary potholes (like in the case of concrete and usable robot designs) or add new adventure material in the Traveller vein. It's a great thing, especially for players and GMs.
As a science fiction Gamer, I tend to play games for settings. I play in a Dune game because I like the Herbert books and the movies, I play in a Judge Dredd game because I am a fan of the comics. I play the TTA game because of the TTA setting, etc.
With Traveller, I like the "basic" OTU setting, but I have nothing to add. Products like "1001 characters" et al have an official look, but they are by and large compilations of data. Plus, they are very general, even the Patron books, not even really OTU.
Any kind of OTU stuff I do is free, out of the enjoyment I get from playing Traveller. I tend to throw a lot into it, as it is my hobby. I look at it as extended character sheet info. Some of my best characters "live" in the OTU. I don't expect anyone to pay for a character sheet.
As far as producing a product using the MGT engine... Ok. I'm game for that. I like the MGT setup.
As a game buyer, I wouldn't pay a dime for someone's reinterpretation of a game book, or optional rules, nor should anyone out there writing expect so. The Mongoose has gone to the trouble of making the book, and they are going to great lengths to accomodate and listen to the fan base. Looking at the rest of thier site, and the games they already publish, I think them a good choice to handle the "official" stuff in that regard. plus, they have the liscence. It's not like rules issues are not examined thouroughly. Its not like the old days when there was no internet.
But I think that the publishers should recognize authors like Flynn. Works like Stellar Reaches and his Robot work are things that fill very necessary potholes (like in the case of concrete and usable robot designs) or add new adventure material in the Traveller vein. It's a great thing, especially for players and GMs.
As a science fiction Gamer, I tend to play games for settings. I play in a Dune game because I like the Herbert books and the movies, I play in a Judge Dredd game because I am a fan of the comics. I play the TTA game because of the TTA setting, etc.
With Traveller, I like the "basic" OTU setting, but I have nothing to add. Products like "1001 characters" et al have an official look, but they are by and large compilations of data. Plus, they are very general, even the Patron books, not even really OTU.
Any kind of OTU stuff I do is free, out of the enjoyment I get from playing Traveller. I tend to throw a lot into it, as it is my hobby. I look at it as extended character sheet info. Some of my best characters "live" in the OTU. I don't expect anyone to pay for a character sheet.
As far as producing a product using the MGT engine... Ok. I'm game for that. I like the MGT setup.
I'm not sure I understand any of it. Could I ask someone to have a glance over my T20 alternate history ATU. I'm not sure that under the development pack it's still going to be legal to keep up, although under Fair Use policies so far it's been okay. The problem being is that it uses some OTU terms, such as Vilani, Ziru Sirka, etc. The ATU is set in the Interstellar Wars period and is a deviation from the official history before first contact occurred between the Solomani and the Vilani.
Valarian said:
If you use any word that is copyright or protected as Product Identity/intellectual property as part of the OTU, such as Solomani or Vilani, it wouldn't be permissible if the OTU is restricted or reserved. You can change them to common words, such as Terrans or transplanted humans, etc., or words of your own creation, however, and be okay. The words Interstellar Wars are common to sci-fi and I believe would be hard for MWM to claim as Product Identity, but using Interstellar Wars in the same context (dates, etc.) as it is used in the OTU violates the OTU intellectual property. (Remember, it's more than just copyright we're talking about here; it's intellectual property and Product Identity, too.) If your changes are significant enough, you most likely could get away with minimal changes in proper names, though.
With Regards,
Flynn
Well here's something interesting. It is my understanding that once content has been declared to be Open Gaming Content, it remains so afterwards.
One other Traveller game has released material that is OGC - Traveller d20.
In the back of the T20 book (page 442) it says:
It then goes on to specify that "those sections that are solely derived from the original Traveller canon works, such as vehicle and starship design, or the worldbuilding rules remain closed content and are not considered Open Game Content".
Then it lists a massive wall of text containing all the "Product Identity" which is in addition to items specified under 1e of the Open Game License. This includes all the terms specific to Traveller - a random selection of these are: Ziru Sirka, Rule of Man, Zhodani Consulate, Hiver, K'Kree, Inyx, Sydite, Humaniti, Solomani, Zhodani, Vilani, Regina, Glisten, Lords of Thunder, Deadspace, Amber Zone, Astroburgers, Coyns, Signal GK, air/raft, Scout/Courier, Far Trader, Misjump, and High Passage.
That's how T20 does it anyway. But it's clear even from that, that any terms specific to the Charted Space setting (including, oddly enough, "Charted Space" and "OTU" and "Official Traveller Universe"!) are not open content for T20. So it seems likely that they won't be declared Open Content for anything else either.
One other Traveller game has released material that is OGC - Traveller d20.
In the back of the T20 book (page 442) it says:
It then goes on to specify that "those sections that are solely derived from the original Traveller canon works, such as vehicle and starship design, or the worldbuilding rules remain closed content and are not considered Open Game Content".
Then it lists a massive wall of text containing all the "Product Identity" which is in addition to items specified under 1e of the Open Game License. This includes all the terms specific to Traveller - a random selection of these are: Ziru Sirka, Rule of Man, Zhodani Consulate, Hiver, K'Kree, Inyx, Sydite, Humaniti, Solomani, Zhodani, Vilani, Regina, Glisten, Lords of Thunder, Deadspace, Amber Zone, Astroburgers, Coyns, Signal GK, air/raft, Scout/Courier, Far Trader, Misjump, and High Passage.
That's how T20 does it anyway. But it's clear even from that, that any terms specific to the Charted Space setting (including, oddly enough, "Charted Space" and "OTU" and "Official Traveller Universe"!) are not open content for T20. So it seems likely that they won't be declared Open Content for anything else either.
It could become slightly difficult to protect some of those "terms specific
to Traveller", I think.
My Live Search program found 26.300 results for "Inyx", 57.900 results
for "Deadspace" and 11.800.000 (!!!) results for "Hiver", to give just a
few examples - and most of the stuff found had nothing at all to do with
Traveller.
By the way, there is even a Hive Intelligence mentioned in the Ringworld
novels, and it would only be logical to call its members Hivers.
Vargr, on the other hand, is old Norse for "wolf", and it could hardly be
disallowed to call a wolf a wolf in a real world language.
And so on and on ... lot of potential work for lawyers, there ... :twisted:
to Traveller", I think.
My Live Search program found 26.300 results for "Inyx", 57.900 results
for "Deadspace" and 11.800.000 (!!!) results for "Hiver", to give just a
few examples - and most of the stuff found had nothing at all to do with
Traveller.
By the way, there is even a Hive Intelligence mentioned in the Ringworld
novels, and it would only be logical to call its members Hivers.
Vargr, on the other hand, is old Norse for "wolf", and it could hardly be
disallowed to call a wolf a wolf in a real world language.
And so on and on ... lot of potential work for lawyers, there ... :twisted:
