Training new skills after chargen

[CosmicGamer]

Am I correct that all one needs is two weeks training with successful EDU checks to go from a level 1 to level 2 in a skill?

If so, this seams way to fast and I think this section needs some changes.

Also I think there should be some requirements to training.
What I suggest is a mentor/trainer (a professional instructor could give a boon) with the appropriate skill and/or the appropriate expert program (in training mode).

 

[Kaelic]

I like the new style of training, but agree it's a little too fast as well. I think a larger investment cost for higher skills would be nice. Like Next Rank * 2.

eg.
Rank 0 = 1 Week
Rank 1 = 2 Weeks
Rank 2 = 4 Weeks
Rank 3 = 6 Weeks
so on..

Perhaps not exactly this, but something *like* this. I say this mainly because I like PCs having the ability to get a skill to 0 *relatively* easily.

Also I think there should be some requirements to training.

In my playtest we had a PC with really bad EDU, so I gave him a Boon for acquiring a mentor or assistance manual to train with. In the end it gave them more to think about for the training, so I think it's a good option.

You could make the check a bit harder, and have an optional Boon from materials/assistance.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

But still do the two EDU checks? Or no? The character will be out of the game for two weeks while the others are Travelling. That could be a trade-off for gaining a level 2.

 

[Kaelic]

But still do the two EDU checks? Or no? The character will be out of the game for two weeks while the others are Travelling. That could be a trade-off for gaining a level 2.

Doesn't it currently say the weeks don't have to be consecutive? So no matter how many weeks it is, you can still do them 1 week at a time right?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

One week is spent "studying". Then time off to do some job work "travellering". Then a month or so later go back for some more "studying" for a week. Still two weeks where that character is out of the picture.

A referee can fast-forward all this stuff. But now the other players are looking at their ages change while waiting for that one guy in finishing school.

 

[Kaelic]

Maybe I was too lax with it, but I let them train on-ship during jump travel. That seems to be the assumed time to train. Is this not the intention?

That's probably also why CosmicGamer thinks it's too fast, because a few trips between planets can net quite a lot of skills.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Time spent in jump tends to be an ordeal in games I've been in. Not much time for studying.

 

[DickNervous]

I like the new style of training, but agree it's a little too fast as well. I think a larger investment cost for higher skills would be nice. Like Next Rank * 2.

eg.
Rank 0 = 1 Week
Rank 1 = 2 Weeks
Rank 2 = 4 Weeks
Rank 3 = 6 Weeks
so on..

Perhaps not exactly this, but something *like* this. I say this mainly because I like PCs having the ability to get a skill to 0 *relatively* easily.

Also I think there should be some requirements to training.

In my playtest we had a PC with really bad EDU, so I gave him a Boon for acquiring a mentor or assistance manual to train with. In the end it gave them more to think about for the training, so I think it's a good option.

You could make the check a bit harder, and have an optional Boon from materials/assistance.

I agree, it should take longer to get higher levels of the skill and I like your suggestion.

In my current campaign when players do a skill check and roll a natural 12 I have them add a tick mark to their character sheet next to that skill. Once they get double the next skill level tick marks, they can find a trainer and take a week to increase the skill. So to go from Computers 1 to Computers 2 they need 4 tick marks and then need to find a trainer.

In the new system the extended time to get a higher level would represent the time to find a trainer as well as studying. And there should also be a monetary cost associated for any levels beyond 0, perhaps Cr1,000 x Level. After all, school isn't free.

 

[CosmicGamer]

when players do a skill check and roll a natural 12 I have them add a tick mark to their character sheet next to that skill. Once they get double the next skill level tick marks, they can find a trainer and take a week to increase the skill. So to go from Computers 1 to Computers 2 they need 4 tick marks and then need to find a trainer.

This is something that has been discussed in the past and I like it as a on the job learning type of mechanism. Also seen the use of snake eyes adding a tick mark for learning from ones mistakes.

Don't think it should be part of the core rules though because
- Some people are not into the added record keeping.
- Play groups can vary greatly in how much they roll vs role play. I've got one GM I play with that often goes an eight hour game session with no rolls at all if there is no combat.

I suggest something like this as a candidate for the Traveller Companion.

And there should also be a monetary cost associated for any levels beyond 0, perhaps Cr1,000 x Level. After all, school isn't free.

Part of why I suggest needing a expert program.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I noticed that I started this thread in the wrong section. These rules are in the Traveller Creation chapter and should probably be moved to that section.

At least to me, it seams that this is not part of initial character creation and the next release should move this to the skills chapter, like "LEARNING NEW SKILLS" is for the original core rule book.

Time spent in jump tends to be an ordeal in games I've been in. Not much time for studying.

Even if not "an ordeal", the typical small crew of a ship may have a hard time being "uninterrupted" for a week. The steward definitely wouldn't get a chance to train during jump!

Also I think there should be some requirements to training.
What I suggest is a mentor/trainer (a professional instructor could give a boon) with the appropriate skill and/or the appropriate expert program (in training mode).

Quoting myself here. Prior to the heading TRAINING, Is the heading POST CAREER EDUCATION. I had jumped straight to the Training rules and missed that Post Career Education does cover this, just not with any specifics.

Perhaps Training should be a sub heading under Post Career Education?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Do guys on submarines have time to train in things other than ship operations? I see them in classroom training when they're docked at a base. But these are guys still in the navy, so technically they are still in their career learning stuff.

Yes, I've tried asking them. And no, they can't talk about their missions ever.

 

[AndrewW]

I noticed that I started this thread in the wrong section. These rules are in the Traveller Creation chapter and should probably be moved to that section.

Done.

 

[-Daniel-]

I also believe the EDU 8+ roll will be harder to hit than expected if the character has used EDU as a dump attribute. -1 for EDU of 5 makes that now an EDU 9+

So I study for one week, fail the roll.
Study for another week, fail roll.
Study for another week, make the roll.

3 weeks for a zero not 1. Now of course there are those who roll well, so be it.

But what are the odds I make 2 or 3 EDU 9+ rolls to get to level 2 or 3 on a skill?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

And is it something that your character would want to learn?

 

[First Age]

Time spent in jump tends to be an ordeal in games I've been in. Not much time for studying.

It does say this on p.51:

Many Travellers take the opportunity of week-long jump travel to study, learning new skills during what might otherwise be a dull journey.

So, I guess much depends on the operations requirement during a jump (assuming you are crew)? For higher level skills I might be tempted to increase the duration for each check to a number of weeks equal to the level being attained:

Level 0 = 1 Week and 1 check
Level 1 = 1 Week and 1 check
Level 2 = 2 Weeks and 2 checks - 4 weeks total if concentrated and successful
Level 3 = 3 Weeks and 3 checks - 9 weeks total if concentrated and successful

But anyway - I like that this is here and gives a straightforward way to move skills up a little in play.

 

[Golan2072]

Keep in mind that in Traveller:

1) Skills are the most important asset a character possesses (possibly barring starships), with each point in a skill being worth quite a lot, for example when compared to skill points in D20 systems. Having a kills of 1 means you have an employable skill - and a skill of 2-3 is professional level. So typical characters shouldn't have too many skills above 1.

2) Traveller uses a 2d6 curve, unlike the linear d20 roll of D20 games. Which means that every +1 is important and influential on the roll. Getting high skills quickly - will tend to "break" the 2d6 curve and yield automatic successes very easily.

3) You gain skills at chargen at the rate of a few per 4-year term, possibly 1-2 per 4 years. Gaining skills after character generation probably shouldn't be faster.

So 2 weeks plus check per skill level would be VERY VERY fast. I'd go as far as to one skill level (for the player to put anywhere he wants) per in-game year, or even per 2 (or 4!) in-game years. This will mirror the chargen skill advancement rates... Or use the systems given in Classic Traveller (i.e. Skill-2 by 4-year seminary).

 

[CosmicGamer]

I also believe the EDU 8+ roll will be harder to hit than expected if the character has used EDU as a dump attribute.

One should consider carefully how they want to arrange their characteristics. Create the dumb jock instead of the wimpy science guy and you'll likely take longer to learn things.

So I study for one week, fail the roll.
Study for another week, fail roll.
Study for another week, make the roll.

3 weeks for a zero not 1.

One of my criticisms of the system is how quickly one CAN learn something - if all goes right. For example someone could learn Medic 0 in one week, Medic 1 in another 1, then medic 2 in two more weeks. One month to go from no skill in medic to self teaching oneself to be a doctor!

So 2 weeks plus check per skill level would be VERY VERY fast. I'd go as far as to one skill level (for the player to put anywhere he wants) per in-game year, or even per 2 (or 4!) in-game years. This will mirror the chargen skill advancement rates

Agree with most of what you had to say but in chargen a character can gain 6 level 0 skills (basic training) while also getting several other skills.

Just throwing some possibilities out there.
You could make it "harder" to gain higher skill levels? Have the task be modified by the level of the skill being learned. Perhaps a negative DM equal to the level of the skill one is trying to acquire.

You could alter the timing.
Level 0 skill is done in some amount of hours - with the number of hours, like 16, possibly taking days. (However I have an issue with making level zero skills too easy as the +0 DM vs -3 unskilled DM is so BIG a difference that it doesn't seam like a few hours or even weeks should make more of a different than a +0 basic knowledge has with a +2 full professional.
Level 1 can be learned in some amount of days - with the number of days possibly taking weeks
Level 2 can be learned in months
Level 3 and up taking a year or more of study or hands on work experience/training

** And speaking of timing, how might this task, as currently written, be altered by the boon and bane of taking ones time while studying and going slower or rushing through their training and going faster?

But what are the odds I make 2 or 3 EDU 9+ rolls to get to level 2 or 3 on a skill?

100% ?? If you keep trying and haven't reached your skill limit.
Note that even a +1 DM Above average EDU character has over a 40% chance it takes 2 or more weeks!!

Rough 2d6 odds (someone with better math skills may want to check this)
+2 DM Highly Educated character will likely learn a level 0 skill in one week but over 25% of the time it will take 2 or more.
+1 DM - see note above
+0 DM Average EDU on average takes 2 weeks to learn a level 0 skill.
-1 DM Below average EDU might take 4 weeks to learn a level 0 skill.
-2 DM uneducated EDU has a hard time learning and on average takes 6 weeks to learn and retain for life a level 0 skill.

 

[Narl]

Fast skill training like this is a serious problem. Game-breaking even. Character careers become pointless as you can pick up any skill you like. Everyone will be a doctor and an ace pilot! Without having ever even performed surgery or flown a ship!

Change "weeks" to "years" and maybe it would be balanced, but I still think it diminishes careers. Training done through "distance learning" should only allow you to go to skill 0 or 1.

I'd suggest coming up with a real system for advancement that encourages adventuring and using your skills rather than sitting in the ship training. In my Classic Traveller campaign, I just allowed each character to test to advance one of their most used skills every year, with the skill level being a negative mod (the better you get, the harder it is to advance). Like Call of Cthulhu/BRP, but much slower and more limited since 1 point in a skill is a huge jump.

That yearly advance should not be a sure thing, but it does benefit characters who find that their primary job on the ship is one they aren't that highly skilled in.

 

[Golan2072]

If I understand correctly this allows you, with good rolls, to become a full doctor with Medic-2 (starting with no background whatsoever) in 6 weeks - 2 weeks for Medic-0, 2 weeks for Medic-1 and 2 weeks for Medic-2. It's way, way too fast.

I'd even say - resist the urge to include quick character advancement in Traveller. Character skills shouldn't change much after chargen - and to change them takes much time and effort, just like in real life or in chargen. The Classic Traveller experience system (from The Traveller Book or the 3 LBBs) was very appropriate.

 

[Golan2072]

So 2 weeks plus check per skill level would be VERY VERY fast. I'd go as far as to one skill level (for the player to put anywhere he wants) per in-game year, or even per 2 (or 4!) in-game years. This will mirror the chargen skill advancement rates

Agree with most of what you had to say but in chargen a character can gain 6 level 0 skills (basic training) while also getting several other skills.

True, but this happens ONCE per entire career. And skill-0 are much lesser in scope than actual skills; they are not employable, just basic courses and certifications (e.g. firearm training at boot camp for rear-echelon troops, typical quick civilian CPR/first aid training, civilian motorist who gets a license to drive his private car but will drive badly under stressful conditions and isn't licensed to drive a cab, a bus or a truck).

A Skill-1 is an employable job skill. Get Mechanic-1 and you can apply for a job at a garage as an actual mechanic. Get Medic-1 and you can apply for a job as a paramedic - or a ship's medic. Most people in real life or in Classic Traveller don't have long lists of employable skills - 4-5 skills are quite appropriate. Most of your hobby skills and day-to-day skills are skill-0. And Skill-2 or Skill-3 is professional level, enough to get a license as a proper professional; typically a person has one profession, maybe two. Classic Traveller Book 1 chargen (and Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium) handled this quite well and did not overload characters with skills.