Trading income

[Garuda]

Making a lot of money trading is ok - but the real question is -
What else are they doing? [..snip..]

If roleplay was just about die roles, then there would be no reason for a referee...

I agree with this. If the players are just playing a trading game to make money with no complications then there is absolutley no need for a Referee. They can just roll dice on a table and if all they do is roll dice on a table to make a profit then it is a basic trading game, not an RPG.

Traveller is an RPG and requires a Refree to moderate roleplaying. The game should offer challenges of many varieties and the Referee should throw the unexpected at his or her players to facilitate roleplay and dare I say it ---inject a bit of excitement into the game. As others have suggested throw complications at the players.

 

[CosmicGamer]

... shady back-room deals with 400% sell prices

The problem I see with this concept is that the better skilled broker is going to be rolling higher numbers more often than a lower skilled broker. Why is a highly skilled broker who should be able to easily make money legitimately instead constantly running into situations? They are rolling the exact same dice as the lesser skilled broker but the result is higher because of their skill. Suggesting 'handling' high results in some way and not just high rolls seams rather unfair to me. Somehow these skilled brokers are getting deals that have issues more often than lesser skilled brokers?

To me, some brokers are just better than others. Successful brokers do become wealthy. Being wealthy can have it's own challenges.

 

[Golan2072]

... shady back-room deals with 400% sell prices

The problem I see with this concept is that the better skilled broker is going to be rolling higher numbers more often than a lower skilled broker. Why is a highly skilled broker who should be able to easily make money legitimately instead constantly running into situations? They are rolling the exact same dice as the lesser skilled broker but the result is higher because of their skill. Suggesting 'handling' high results in some way and not just high rolls seams rather unfair to me. Somehow these skilled brokers are getting deals that have issues more often than lesser skilled brokers?

That's a problem with the Traveller trade tables: they assume that you'll be taking large risks to get even larger rewards. In other words, they assume that if you have a high Broker skill, you're using that skill to look for the best smuggling (or grey market or black market) opportunity around and not for a less profitable but much, much safer 100% legit deal.

If you want to cater to both options, you should probably create a second set of trade tables for "safe" commodity-exchange brokering. The profit margins shouldn't be THAT large on the safe table, but a highly-skilled broker should still be able to grow rich by interstellar speculations.

 

[GamerDude]

The problem I see with this concept is that the better skilled broker is going to be rolling higher numbers more often than a lower skilled broker. Why is a highly skilled broker who should be able to easily make money legitimately instead constantly running into situations?.

Because they've spent their time in the trenches, at the bottom of the food chain, and they've learned the contacts the ins-and-outs and developed the skills. Any inexperience trader attempting to go up against such a person is definitely at a disadvantage.

Think about it this way... instead of traders we're dealing with computer companies... one large with lots of financial clout (experienced) and one up and comer trying to get it's first products out the door (beginner/inexperienced) I'll call the experienced on "Microsoft" and the other "some small dinky company."

Who do you think in the negotiations is going to have the power? The little guy? Heck no it's the 'Microsoft'. If 'Microsoft' likes what the dinky company has, but doesn't want to even negotiate a deal they'll just buy up the company. (yes this is an extreme but I hope it makes my point).

 

[CosmicGamer]

That's a problem with the Traveller trade tables: they assume that you'll be taking large risks to get even larger rewards. In other words, they assume that if you have a high Broker skill, you're using that skill to look for the best smuggling (or grey market or black market) opportunity around and not for a less profitable but much, much safer 100% legit deal.

If you want to cater to both options, you should probably create a second set of trade tables for "safe" commodity-exchange brokering. The profit margins shouldn't be THAT large on the safe table, but a highly-skilled broker should still be able to grow rich by interstellar speculations.

See page 164 top right. I believe Illegal goods are accounted for differently than 'safe' goods. Maybe it is your assumption and not something built into the Mongoose Traveller trade tables? I don't come away with the same impression. Please give detail on why this is so.

See page 163 left column. People have to specifically seek out a black market supplier if they want to deal in illegal goods. It is a different role than finding a 'safe' supplier.

To me, a high streetwise skill is more likely to be indicative of someone who looks for the best smuggling opportunity, not a high broker skill.

Id say that the rules already do cater to both options, but I could be missing something.

 

[CosmicGamer]

The problem I see with this concept is that the better skilled broker is going to be rolling higher numbers more often than a lower skilled broker. Why is a highly skilled broker who should be able to easily make money legitimately instead constantly running into situations?.

Because they've spent their time in the trenches, at the bottom of the food chain, and they've learned the contacts the ins-and-outs and developed the skills. Any inexperience trader attempting to go up against such a person is definitely at a disadvantage.

Think about it this way... instead of traders we're dealing with computer companies... one large with lots of financial clout (experienced) and one up and comer trying to get it's first products out the door (beginner/inexperienced) I'll call the experienced on "Microsoft" and the other "some small dinky company."

Who do you think in the negotiations is going to have the power? The little guy? Heck no it's the 'Microsoft'. If 'Microsoft' likes what the dinky company has, but doesn't want to even negotiate a deal they'll just buy up the company. (yes this is an extreme but I hope it makes my point).

Sorry, but you totally lost me.

Reading the snippet you grabbed, I can see how maybe you are interpreting my words and not my thoughts. What is your psionic strength?

As I re-read it, my words definitely were not conveying my thoughts accurately. They never do. I'll try to restate.

The problem I see with this concept [constructing a direct association between high results and special circumstances] is that the better skilled broker is going to be rolling higher numbers more often[producing higher results after utilizing all DM's and the die roll] than a lower skilled broker. Why is a highly skilled broker who should be able to easily make money legitimately instead constantly running into situations? [The higher and lower skilled brokers can have the exact same die roll but people are proposign that high results = special situations. I feel a higher level broker is more likely to know what they are walking into and to recognize 'shifty' deals than a low level broker]

Or is the assumption that the only way to make big bucks is through crooked deals and large companies, especially Microsoft, are all crooked?

 

[Golan2072]

That's a problem with the Traveller trade tables: they assume that you'll be taking large risks to get even larger rewards. In other words, they assume that if you have a high Broker skill, you're using that skill to look for the best smuggling (or grey market or black market) opportunity around and not for a less profitable but much, much safer 100% legit deal.

If you want to cater to both options, you should probably create a second set of trade tables for "safe" commodity-exchange brokering. The profit margins shouldn't be THAT large on the safe table, but a highly-skilled broker should still be able to grow rich by interstellar speculations.

See page 164 top right. I believe Illegal goods are accounted for differently than 'safe' goods. Maybe it is your assumption and not something built into the Mongoose Traveller trade tables? I don't come away with the same impression. Please give detail on why this is so.

See page 163 left column. People have to specifically seek out a black market supplier if they want to deal in illegal goods. It is a different role than finding a 'safe' supplier.

To me, a high streetwise skill is more likely to be indicative of someone who looks for the best smuggling opportunity, not a high broker skill.

Id say that the rules already do cater to both options, but I could be missing something.

I agree that the smuggling of outright illegal goods is handled by the rules as written using different rules. But other, somewhat less illegal, forms of shady deals may still be subsumed in the "normal" tables.

Ask yourself: why would someone buy, say, 4 ATVs at 300% or 400% of the standard market price when he can just walk into a normal vehicle retail lot and buy them at the market price (modified as it is by local trade-code modifiers)?

Of course, when playing in colonial conditions with small economies and far less stability, this would probably make sense even for 100% legit goods. But in more established areas the price curves would probably be far less extreme.

Or are the tables intended for a frontier economy? Then the RAW tables will make perfect sense... And frontier life carries its own risks (which are unrelated to the broker skill or to the profits you're making).

 

[BP]

To me - high broker skill means good negotiation and ferretting (finding deals) experience.

Means the deals are financially sweeter - but not neccessarily, overall, sweeter :wink: Nor, does it imply any legal skills (the RW has examples of this...)

Now a high Broker Skill combined with a high Streetwise skill would likely get you the best deals - over or under the counter, legit or otherwise. They will also know when they are being played, scammed, setup. Just having high Broker skill won't neccesarily imply this.

Additionally, brokers may be dealing with middlemen who are unknowing stoogies for the scam/ripoff - the only real tipoff, in this case, is the percieved inexperience of the middlemen and the 'too good to be true' deal.

Interstellar traders might have a lot of coin to be made between markets - but if they are plying the lines - then they also may be at a disadvantage to being in the local know of a given planets current economics, laws, politics, scams. Even high skill levels can't completely compensate for ignorance in these areas when one is quickly jumping from system to system.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Ask yourself: why would someone buy, say, 4 ATVs at 300% or 400% of the standard market price when he can just walk into a normal vehicle retail lot and buy them at the market price (modified as it is by local trade-code modifiers)?

Why would anything at all be traded for more or less than 100%? He was such a good broker he talked me into taking a loss?

Maybe it has something to do with supply and demand? There are numerous reasons, and some of them might just be boring and legitimate.

The ATVs were special ordered because the wealthy local wanted them in a color that isn't provided locally. The usual supplier was struck by a natural disaster. The trade ship that normally comes broke down and hasn't made a delivery in two months. A famous local recently endorsed the product and demand has skyrocketed. There was a typo on the previous order and 10 were received instead of 100. The regular supplier from another system just issued recalls on their product due to dangerous defects, now nobody wants to buy from them.

I'm not saying that the situations people have proposed can't occur. In fact, it is probably more interesting than 100% legit, no problems trading. I just don't think it is logical or fair that 'hurdles' are handed out only because the broker is higher level.

- I feel a higher level broker is more likely to know what they are walking into and to recognize 'shifty' deals than a low level broker but it is proposed that they are going to be the very ones that are 'forced' by the GM to take these shady deals because their results are too high.
- Essentially, players of higher level brokers can no longer role play their character as being legit. The only way a better skilled broker can make more profit is to be crooked? Why can't they be better at ferreting out legitimate, possibly short term opportunity's produced by local market conditions?

I can understand wanting to 'give detail' to the high results and not just simply say there is currently a low supply or a high demand for the product. If a table of legitimate and shady reasons to explain high results is used and players are given a chance to recognize a shady deal and back out of it, I do see that as being fairer. But why can't lower results have additional details too? Do average brokers lead average lives and a play group with an average broker has a boring game? To me, giving detail is something that should be done whenever, and not just because there is a high skilled broker producing high results.

Or are the tables intended for a frontier economy? Then the RAW tables will make perfect sense... And frontier life carries its own risks (which are unrelated to the broker skill or to the profits you're making).

I believe the tables are slanted toward locations off the normal trade routes where a higher profit can be made. Yes, risks are greater, and being wealthy has it's own risks and challenges.

---
The Universe isn't out to get you, it's your GM!

 

[Golan2072]

Maybe it has something to do with supply and demand? There are numerous reasons, and some of them might just be boring and legitimate.

The ATVs were special ordered because the wealthy local wanted them in a color that isn't provided locally. The usual supplier was struck by a natural disaster. The trade ship that normally comes broke down and hasn't made a delivery in two months. A famous local recently endorsed the product and demand has skyrocketed. There was a typo on the previous order and 10 were received instead of 100. The regular supplier from another system just issued recalls on their product due to dangerous defects, now nobody wants to buy from them.

Again, it supports the hypothesis that these rules are designed with the frontier world in mind. "Core" worlds tend to have much larger markets (and supplies and demands) and thus less extreme fluctuations in the supply-demand ratio. Frontier backwaters would be more likely have these scenarios, as their markets are small and thus a missed order of 90 ATVs might cause a massive shortage for some time, which would be exploitable by good brokers.

And the Frontier has its risks and these are unrelated to the characters' Broker skill but to the very fact that they stray from the main trade lanes in search of better opportunities on the Frontier. This way you could have both adventure and fat profits while staying completely legit (if you want).

 

[dreamingbadger]

Maybe it has something to do with supply and demand? There are numerous reasons, and some of them might just be boring and legitimate.

The ATVs were special ordered because the wealthy local wanted them in a color that isn't provided locally. The usual supplier was struck by a natural disaster. The trade ship that normally comes broke down and hasn't made a delivery in two months. A famous local recently endorsed the product and demand has skyrocketed. There was a typo on the previous order and 10 were received instead of 100. The regular supplier from another system just issued recalls on their product due to dangerous defects, now nobody wants to buy from them.

Again, it supports the hypothesis that these rules are designed with the frontier world in mind. "Core" worlds tend to have much larger markets (and supplies and demands) and thus less extreme fluctuations in the supply-demand ratio. Frontier backwaters would be more likely have these scenarios, as their markets are small and thus a missed order of 90 ATVs might cause a massive shortage for some time, which would be exploitable by good brokers.

And the Frontier has its risks and these are unrelated to the characters' Broker skill but to the very fact that they stray from the main trade lanes in search of better opportunities on the Frontier. This way you could have both adventure and fat profits while staying completely legit (if you want).

Obviously this all needs to be roleplayed out, rather than roll-played , but, maybe that could be expressed as a difficulty DM for the broker skill, is the location where you are trying to "sell" well served by existing merchant shipping, the trade code denote what is a given world has available for trade but don't say how well it is currently served.

A lot depends on the universe, but the chances are that if you have large cargo ships that are corporate run, then well established trade routes would be more difficult to find "spare" cargos for a trader to exploit.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Actually, all that I am advocating is for the Ref to use the rolls as a guideline for setting up an encounter scenario... clip ... As Golan suggested, a mediocre result probably indicates a fairly normal transaction. An extreme result suggests a more unique scenario is required... clip ...Selling goods at 400% of their “fair market value” suggests that SOMETHING is going on, whether you just lucked into the deal (good rolls) or found the deal through skill (high die modifiers).

How's this? Sell price 300% or 400%? Roll d6d6

11) The cargo was special ordered because a wealthy local wanted them with an option that isn't provided locally.
12) The usual supplier was struck by a natural disaster.
13) The trade ship that normally comes broke down and hasn't made a delivery in two months.
14) A famous local recently endorsed the product and demand has skyrocketed.
15) There was a typo on the previous order and 10 were received instead of 100.
16) The regular supplier from another system just issued recalls on their product due to dangerous defects, now nobody wants to buy from them.

21-26) Need 6 more descriptions of legitimate reasons for goods to sell for very high %

31) You were paid in counterfeit money
32) You can get a good price, but the buyer needs 2 weeks to put the funds together. What trouble can you get into while you wait?
33) The local supply was stolen and now the group is suspected.
34) Picketers with hot tempers have shut down the local supply and now they are picketing your ship.
35) Union cargo transporters are on strike, you can get the great deal only if you transport the goods to the other side of the planet somehow. Not only will the Union want to stop you, but it's against the law to do it if you are not a union member. If you do not want to take this deal, you can take 120% and the buyer will find someone else to transport it. You also get a -6 DM on purchasing since cargoes are not getting to the star port due to the strike. The strike will last for 1d6 weeks.
36) Stolen goods were hidden within the cargo, undetected. The crew is unaware until the authorities come.

41-46) Need 6 more descriptions of 'shady' reasons or issues to overcome for goods to sell for very high %

51-56) The broker doesn't know why they got such a good price. Will this later come back to bite them?

61-66) What other categories and reasons can you come up with?

 

[Duroon]

If your players are making this kind of profit. . . . LEAVE THEM ALONE. Every time I hear how players need to lose some of their hard earned money, it sounds like jealousy to me. It brings the mind the lame ways of releaving players of their hard earned loot from D&D.

The problem, for me, in this sort of situation becomes one of motivation. How do I motivate the players to take on a job when they can make a ton of money just doing trade? It did come up on my first campaign with the Mongoose rules. I had a player with a Broker level of 6. I tried to entice the group with a little job and after telling them how much it was going to pay they decided to pass on it. Not to mention that once they get to a certain point why aren't they just settling down on a nice planet somewhere with all that cash? Why would some character with hundreds of millions of credits be going around the galaxy looking for jobs?

 

[CosmicGamer]

The problem, for me, in this sort of situation becomes one of motivation. How do I motivate the players to take on a job when they can make a ton of money just doing trade? It did come up on my first campaign with the Mongoose rules. I had a player with a Broker level of 6. I tried to entice the group with a little job and after telling them how much it was going to pay they decided to pass on it. Not to mention that once they get to a certain point why aren't they just settling down on a nice planet somewhere with all that cash? Why would some character with hundreds of millions of credits be going around the galaxy looking for jobs?

Is it a pre written adventure or one that you came up with? Perhaps it's a matter of picking the right adventure to match the skills, backgrounds and personalities of the characters. Maybe you should tweak the adventure to better suit the characters. In your case, maybe figure out a way that the job will pay more.

It's all about the role playing. Make the players tell you more about their characters than what was rolled in chargen. As a GM, you shouldn't be left guessing what makes the character tick. Many GM's ask the players to list a couple short term and long term goals for their characters.

Motivation = Perceived Probability of Success (Expectancy) * Connection of Success and Reward (Instrumentality) * Value of Obtaining Goal (Valance, Value)

Maybe this list will help you.
Money. It's easy to motivate these characters. And most people, even millionaires, want more, especially once they start running in the same circles as other millionaires.
Success in career. Getting promotions, recognition, doing better than your competition.
Family. Family can be a big motivation for some people. Even if the character does not have a spouse or children they may have parents, siblings, cousins or other family that they care about.
Honor/Morality. Some people will tend to do what they perceive is right.
Loyalty. It could be a friend, their captain, or their political leaders, but some characters will do something just because they are asked to by someone they are loyal to.
Likes. Are they into rare old earth artifacts? Vices such as food, drink, or a romantic companionship.
Dislikes. Unscrupulous types may need the characters to do something for them. They could torture the character into doing something. Maybe the choice is prove your innocence or go to jail. Does the character hate Zhodani, maybe they will get a chance to kill one on this job.
Religion. Won't go into any detail here on the website.

There must be a list somewhere on the internet of this kind of stuff.

 

[BP]

[...I had a player with a Broker level of 6.

That can be a problem if the party has a ship and some dough - so relieve them of something - i.e. the broker gets kidnapped (again broker skill does not equal streetwise); ship gets impounded; players get robbed...

None of these things are directly taking credits away in a way the players can't overcome (taxes/fees).

I tried to entice the group with a little job and after telling them how much it was going to pay they decided to pass on it.

As CosmicGamer pointed out - give them alternate motivations - nobility, land, beautiful princess, get out of jail free favors, get their golden egg laying goose back (the broker) - whatever will motivate them.

Not to mention that once they get to a certain point why aren't they just settling down on a nice planet somewhere with all that cash?

And rolling new characters...
Besides - the universe doesn't generally just let wealth settle...

Why would some character with hundreds of millions of credits be going around the galaxy looking for jobs?

Probably wouldn't - unless its a way to get their cash back, belongings and impounded funds released, friends and family released, etc.

These elements can be worked into exisitng adventures with a little creativity. And if players want to play to 'get rich' - let them - as long as they can meet the challenges you throw their way!

 

[The Chef]

throw in a nice little war so that regular trade becomes difficult, more expensive and down right dangerous. or have any enemies the players have make things difficult for them, not overtly like fighting them, but maybe a rival corporation or just another trader wants a piece of their action and buys up the last remaining stock at a better price (no supplier is ever going to give up the notion of better cash, especially when someone gets a continual discount), then have them get a regular supply witht the usual avenues that your players have, so they are almost being pipped at the post, forcing them to be smarter, efficient, or to try other things.

also trading is more than just the numbers, roleplay the major events if trade is becoming yuor biggest factor, and have the opposing brokers drive a mean bargin. they are not out to make a loss so regardless of the actual bonus your players have, they will have a bottom line which they will not go into. this makes for a more realistic game where the market is driven by supply demand and basic human greed.

Chef

 

[Bobson]

Wow, this thread really exploded yesterday.

I just don't think it is logical or fair that 'hurdles' are handed out only because the broker is higher level.

- I feel a higher level broker is more likely to know what they are walking into and to recognize 'shifty' deals than a low level broker but it is proposed that they are going to be the very ones that are 'forced' by the GM to take these shady deals because their results are too high.
- Essentially, players of higher level brokers can no longer role play their character as being legit. The only way a better skilled broker can make more profit is to be crooked? Why can't they be better at ferreting out legitimate, possibly short term opportunity's produced by local market conditions?

I agree with this 100%. Penalizing players for being really good at what they do, or deliberately preventing them from doing what they're good at is not the right way to handle excessive ability. In any system, really. If I build a character to be an expert marksman, and the Referee/GM/ST keeps sending us into places where guns/bows are useless, then my character is useless and I'm probably not going to be having fun.

On the other hand, if the GM applies penalties equally (75% of loot from every reward is taxed, not just the one big one that really paid off, the sand is blowing in everyone's eyes and so everyone takes a penalty), it's not quite so bad. But when the penalties are clearly to prevent player success and for no other reason.... :x

 

[MrUkpyr]

If your players are making this kind of profit. . . . LEAVE THEM ALONE. Every time I hear how players need to lose some of their hard earned money, it sounds like jealousy to me. It brings the mind the lame ways of releaving players of their hard earned loot from D&D.

The problem, for me, in this sort of situation becomes one of motivation. How do I motivate the players to take on a job when they can make a ton of money just doing trade? It did come up on my first campaign with the Mongoose rules. I had a player with a Broker level of 6. I tried to entice the group with a little job and after telling them how much it was going to pay they decided to pass on it. Not to mention that once they get to a certain point why aren't they just settling down on a nice planet somewhere with all that cash? Why would some character with hundreds of millions of credits be going around the galaxy looking for jobs?

Interestingly, my players seem to have the perfect system. They have a ship where each has an interest equal to the percent of ship shares they donated. The Pilot is also the Merchant, so he handles the "buying and selling"

The ship costs money, so they have to travel to do merchanting to pay the bills. But since the majority of the players are not merchants, they don't go where the money is so much as they go where the adventures are. Their poor Merchant/Pilot thus is always scrambling to find the right stuff to buy so they can keep making a profit.

Then the rat bastard (grins) rolls 10+ on buying and selling rolls, so he is always buying low and selling high.

The crew gets a share of the money in leiu of a regular paycheck, and the ship funds stay with the ship.

NOTE that last part. "The ship funds stay with the ship" That is how you handle Merchants who make oodles of money. Make sure they are saving up for a rainy day (grin).


The answer to "why would people with money go running around" is simple... it's fun!

 

[Bobson]

If your players are making this kind of profit. . . . LEAVE THEM ALONE. Every time I hear how players need to lose some of their hard earned money, it sounds like jealousy to me. It brings the mind the lame ways of releaving players of their hard earned loot from D&D.

The problem, for me, in this sort of situation becomes one of motivation. How do I motivate the players to take on a job when they can make a ton of money just doing trade? It did come up on my first campaign with the Mongoose rules. I had a player with a Broker level of 6. I tried to entice the group with a little job and after telling them how much it was going to pay they decided to pass on it. Not to mention that once they get to a certain point why aren't they just settling down on a nice planet somewhere with all that cash? Why would some character with hundreds of millions of credits be going around the galaxy looking for jobs?

Interestingly, my players seem to have the perfect system. They have a ship where each has an interest equal to the percent of ship shares they donated. The Pilot is also the Merchant, so he handles the "buying and selling"

The ship costs money, so they have to travel to do merchanting to pay the bills. But since the majority of the players are not merchants, they don't go where the money is so much as they go where the adventures are. Their poor Merchant/Pilot thus is always scrambling to find the right stuff to buy so they can keep making a profit.

Then the rat bastard (grins) rolls 10+ on buying and selling rolls, so he is always buying low and selling high.

The crew gets a share of the money in leiu of a regular paycheck, and the ship funds stay with the ship.

NOTE that last part. "The ship funds stay with the ship" That is how you handle Merchants who make oodles of money. Make sure they are saving up for a rainy day (grin).


The answer to "why would people with money go running around" is simple... it's fun!

That was exactly the situation with my group, except we split it equally rather than based on shares. We went wherever our Referee's plot took us, and our broker made us huge profits in doing so (or minor profits when the planet codes weren't good for trading).

 

[a strange aeon]

I love the d66 table (I love most tables...), and very well might fill in some more entries. If I do that, I'll post it on here.

I'm the Referee in my Traveller group, and I've been worried about the "speculative" trading for a while as well. Right now, the group's just gotten their ship and made their first trade run. Their broker gets a plus 3 total, I believe, but they're savvy enough to plot out ideal routes to maximize the 3d6 roll.

Anyway, after buying 50 tons of basic goods for $500,000, grabbing a mail route, and some bulk freight, they jumped to the next world over and sold them for a huge profit--and after filling their hold with several types of goods to sell to the next world, they still have over a million in liquid assets. Even taking into account their fixed costs--around 400,000 a month for the ship--they stand to make way more money than they could ever use realistically.

Anyway, I'd prefer not to use taxes or fines or outright theft, since that doesn't address the problem really. They could easily make the money back using the same system. I'm also kind of annoyed that the only negative DM for speculative trading is basically GM fiet. One of the strengths of having a system like this is that it works without me having to come up with exceptions all of the time.

I plan on using other motivations, but most of the characters got together to make some money, so it seems disingenuous to keep throwing other hooks at them, hoping they bite. Even if the players understand that the adventure is that way, I don't like forcing characters to make unrealistic decisions just so the players can have fun.

One idea I haven't heard mentioned is very simple and might address the problem. Just apply the "availability" roll you make to see how many goods are available for purchase to the sell roll as well. This is logical and also makes speculative trade more speculative--if you end up with 60 tons of live animals at a bargain price, but your seller is only willing to buy 10 tons of them, then even if you make a profit, you're forced to either sit tight on that optimal planet for another week or so to try to move them (during which adventure can happen), or you take off and bring them to a less ideal market. Either way, you speculate that someone is willing to buy all of what you have.

I'm not sure if the same availability roll should be made for purchase and sell--I'm sure you could fool around with it some. But it seems like it would solve a problem, and at least introduce some risk into trading, and be extraordinarily easy to implement. The other solution I've considered is scaling back the 3d6 table, so that more backwater planets are more rewarding to visit, while the more established ones pay out much closer to the 80%-120% range, but this would be a more substantial rewrite.

Like someone else said, to be rewarded for slaying a dragon is fine--but in this case, there's no dragon. It's just money you get for rolling dice.

Anyway, does anyone foresee problems with adding the availability roll for selling goods as well?

Thanks