Touch Spells in Combat

Voltumna

Mongoose
This is from Conan RPG 1st edition, page 168:

"Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks."

How can you deliver a ranged touch attack?
 
Maybe this sentence is a remnant from SRD / D&D where ranged touch attacks are possible via some spells (something like a Ghost Hand spell)? I'm not into D&D, so this is just a guess.
 
IMHO the wording 'touch attack' doesn't apply to Conan since touch attacks are attacks that don't need to penetrate armor (ie they ignore the AC granted by armor to the target).

Therefore in the standard rules you need to differentiate between a regular attack, such as an axe blow or arrow shot, and an attack that only needs to hit. And since many spells only need to hit to deliver their effect, touch attacks was invented, both melee and ranged.

But in Conan you don't get any AC bonus from armor so you could argue that every attack is a touch attack.
 
But in Conan you don't get any AC bonus from armor so you could argue that every attack is a touch attack.

Touch attacks in the conventional context of D20 is not used in Conan. But a "touch attack" is still an important differentiator than just an attack. The main reason is that it bypasses armor DR (damage reduction). This may seem like splitting hairs but I think it is still important that the term is kept.
 
Deadpool said:
But in Conan you don't get any AC bonus from armor so you could argue that every attack is a touch attack.

Touch attacks in the conventional context of D20 is not used in Conan. But a "touch attack" is still an important differentiator than just an attack. The main reason is that it bypasses armor DR (damage reduction). This may seem like splitting hairs but I think it is still important that the term is kept.

Well, I can't find anything in the rule book stating that it bypasses armor DR and I also don't see the reasoning behind that.
But seeing as I can't recall any touch attack delivering damage in itself, this probably is a moot point.

I thought that another difference was that touch attacks couldn't be Parried, only Dodged.

*Nose buried in his rule book*

Quite right :)
 
For completeness, a D&D ranged touch attack is ranged attack that only needs to make contact with the target, not hit square on. The best example of this would be a ray spell such as Enervation, which requires a to-hit roll but ignores most AC bonuses (armor, natural armor, shield, etc.).

Since armor doesn't make you harder to hit in Conan, and ranged attacks can only be dodged, the ranged touch attack is almost a non-issue. However, since the shield bonus applies to dodges vs. ranged attacks, and a touch attack would ignore ignore such a bonus (but not a regular dodge bonus), the distinction still matters.

MFL
 
Well, I can't find anything in the rule book stating that it bypasses armor DR and I also don't see the reasoning behind that.
But seeing as I can't recall any touch attack delivering damage in itself, this probably is a moot point.

You are right, there isn't any "rule" defining that a touch attack bypasses armor DR, what I was trying to get at is that you can Dodge (as was discussed) a touch attack only and that if there was any damage that was to be applied - it would be magical and therefore ignore armor's DR. It is the same reason that grappling damage isn't affected by the armor's DR. The damage or effect passes through the armor. I view the term "touch attack" is still relevant and an important distinction. Especially as future spells and/or items are created.

It is also used when throwing objects that are breakable upon contact (such as vial of oil or acid, etc.).
 
Deadpool said:
Well, I can't find anything in the rule book stating that it bypasses armor DR and I also don't see the reasoning behind that.
But seeing as I can't recall any touch attack delivering damage in itself, this probably is a moot point.

You are right, there isn't any "rule" defining that a touch attack bypasses armor DR, what I was trying to get at is that you can Dodge (as was discussed) a touch attack only and that if there was any damage that was to be applied - it would be magical and therefore ignore armor's DR. It is the same reason that grappling damage isn't affected by the armor's DR. The damage or effect passes through the armor. I view the term "touch attack" is still relevant and an important distinction. Especially as future spells and/or items are created.

It is also used when throwing objects that are breakable upon contact (such as vial of oil or acid, etc.).

But, wouldn't you say that the bypassing DR trait would be inherited from the type of damage and not the touch attack?
Because I just can't picture an acid eating away at your flesh and not destroying the armor first. Although I can see that this will be determined on a per case basis, atleast for me :)
 
But, wouldn't you say that the bypassing DR trait would be inherited from the type of damage and not the touch attack?
Because I just can't picture an acid eating away at your flesh and not destroying the armor first. Although I can see that this will be determined on a per case basis, atleast for me

You could be specific like that. I tend to run things on a more "abstract" level. I think fire, acid or any type of environmental damage could be said that armor reduces it. But then you have electrical, death attacks, and other like attacks that would cause the effect by just touching the armor. Acid and fire could still cause damage in crevases and open flesh, etc. I think that it is important that the armor doesn't stop people from using creative methods of doing damage - especially sorcerers. I also feel that adding a bunch of additional rules on how much damage acid will do to armor causes the game to be bogged down in rules that go too detailed.

But like you said - it really is up to the GM and the players within your group and how majority of them look at it.
 
there is a box on the character sheet with the words "vs touch attacks" underneath it.

touch attacks are attacks that have to hit the number within this box-irrespective of whether or not they are ranged or melee. The idea is that the attack only has to make contact (you know-touch), so it can't be parried or otherwiser blocked, it does not have to be by hand.

Unless of course it is range: touch. This means your charcter has to do it.
 
pa11ad1n said:
pa11ad1n said:
it can't be parried or otherwiser blocked

I'm confused, in what way does this suggest that it can't be dodged?

It doesn't. Tough attacks cannot be parried (parrying implies knocking the blow aside, which involves a touch). You can dodge touch attacks though.
 
In the use of ranged touch attack though, I ruled that players couldn't get any bonus to their Dodge DV via shields, as that would involve contact with the spell effect. Cover, since it is seperate from the person, adds its benefit normally but if it is a near miss, the spell applies to whatever [or whoever] is providing the cover, if applicable.

Raven, splitting hairs
 
Raven Blackwell said:
In the use of ranged touch attack though, I ruled that players couldn't get any bonus to their Dodge DV via shields, as that would involve contact with the spell effect. Cover, since it is seperate from the person, adds its benefit normally but if it is a near miss, the spell applies to whatever [or whoever] is providing the cover, if applicable.

Raven, splitting hairs

That sounds reasonable enough. I haven't had to do so, but I would make the same ruling.
 
Hyborian Apeman said:
Raven Blackwell said:
In the use of ranged touch attack though, I ruled that players couldn't get any bonus to their Dodge DV via shields, as that would involve contact with the spell effect. Cover, since it is seperate from the person, adds its benefit normally but if it is a near miss, the spell applies to whatever [or whoever] is providing the cover, if applicable.

Raven, splitting hairs
That sounds reasonable enough. I haven't had to do so, but I would make the same ruling.
Right. I don't remember with the Conan game specifically, but OGL ruling with touch attacks is that making ANY contact sets off the spell, so making contact with a shield, for example, is still touching the person you're trying to hit. I believe in Conan it says that dodge DV can count, but not Parry DV. Hope I remembered that right.
 
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