Torpedo acceration.
- Thread starter Infojunky
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Mongoose
Not on all torpedo types, but the Ortillery Torpedo has the same acceleration as a multi warhead missile (HG Page 49). The chart for that missile is on HG page 48.
In my campaign I use this speed for all torpedoes until mongoose clarifies. :?
In my campaign I use this speed for all torpedoes until mongoose clarifies. :?
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I would say that all missiles and torpedos are AT LEAST as fast as the fastest small craft that you can design.
I don't have HG in front of me, but 14g seems to stick in my mind. I would argue that missiles and torpedos would be faster than any ship with people on it. YMMV
I don't have HG in front of me, but 14g seems to stick in my mind. I would argue that missiles and torpedos would be faster than any ship with people on it. YMMV
The whole point of a useful missile (and a torpedo is a missile by another name) is that it accelerates much better than its prospective target and then explodes sufficiently near it (not necessarily actually colliding with it) to deal out potentially lethal damage.
Real life missiles can achieve 250 N (equivalent to about twenty-five times Earth Standard Gravity), so I'd say that 14 g0 was modest, to be honest.
Real life missiles can achieve 250 N (equivalent to about twenty-five times Earth Standard Gravity), so I'd say that 14 g0 was modest, to be honest.
Emperor Herdan
Mongoose
Gaidheal said:
Hmm I've an old old physics background...
Earlier you wrote that RL missiles could manage 250 N (or 250 Newtons of force or (for those not use to SI terms) 250 G). The only declassified information that I have access to suggests that the SPRINT ABM missile had an accelleration of 100 N / 100 g, abet at a very very short range (24 miles operational range). (And I don't really consider N to be used all that commonly in NA, swamped that we are with non-SI americans (smile))
Then you've added a comment about 250 N only being 25 g...
I am confused... mostly over the nomenclature and values, but still its a bit moot to me... I tend to use the HG values giving the absolute time to target, with missiles and Torpedoes being granted as the same.
Take care
E. Herdan
Emperor Herdan
Mongoose
Gaidheal said:
Yep... You're right, I'm wrong... Nae the physics thats faded, t'is the memory 1 N = 1kgf, with the rough notation ~10 N (9.806)= 1 g.
Ahh well... Time to head off to the pub t' drown my sorrows (as opposed to heading off to the pub to celebrate m' victories (smile))
Take care
E. Herdan
Meh, I should have been more explicit, so here is a fuller exposition:
Real missiles on earth regularly accelerate at what amounts to, in game terms, TR25, so I'd say that TR14 is generous (to their opponents) but it's your call. One poster has pointed out that at least one real missile system is rated at four times that (I've not Googled but I am betting it's an air-to-air IR seeking missile).
Missile combat is predicated on the idea that your target cannot outmanoeuvre the incoming missile and thus is frequently a compromise between performance and payload. In layman's terms; you want to 'kill' the target, ideally, but may have to settle for 'serious harm' because you need to be able to hit the target in the first place and might need to lose mass from your 'ideal' solution to do so.
Modern fighter aeroplanes configured for air combat can feasibly hit 12 Gee in a turn (12 times g0) with a pilot just about being able to manage that (black out briefly and recover) if he's fit, good, and so on but certainly no more, whereas the missiles can accelerate, in a straight line, at at least twice that and often turn at three or four times that. In other words, if the guidance system on the missile is able to accurately target the plane you cannot trivially avoid it because it's so fast and can turn better than you can.
In order to be effective (and thus believably used in the game) your missiles or torpedoes need to have similar traits and probably the same kind of gap. If TR6 is the top end of the kind of ships these missiles are being fired at, then running away from a missile with TR14 is obviously just as hopeless as a real life attempt to outrun an AIM-9 series missile is in real life, however it's going to be anything like as short a chase because in real life, the plane's straightline acceleration is more like TR4 and the missile's, as discussed above, more like TR25 (or even TR100!).
At the end of the day it mostly comes down to the kind of feel you want in the game when people start firing torpedoes / missiles at spacecraft: If you want "Oh shit! We're so dead!" then give them very high manoeuvre ratings, if you want "Hold on tight, I'm going to try and lose it..." make them a lot less quick. As an aside, in real life considerable effort is put into systems which make the target harder to acquire at all or else directly interfere with the missile's guidance and navigation.
P.S. Apologies if I am coming over as a bit 'ratty' I have a stupid chest infection / cough / flu thingy that is annoying the hell out of me at the moment and I might be projecting that a bit ;¬)
Real missiles on earth regularly accelerate at what amounts to, in game terms, TR25, so I'd say that TR14 is generous (to their opponents) but it's your call. One poster has pointed out that at least one real missile system is rated at four times that (I've not Googled but I am betting it's an air-to-air IR seeking missile).
Missile combat is predicated on the idea that your target cannot outmanoeuvre the incoming missile and thus is frequently a compromise between performance and payload. In layman's terms; you want to 'kill' the target, ideally, but may have to settle for 'serious harm' because you need to be able to hit the target in the first place and might need to lose mass from your 'ideal' solution to do so.
Modern fighter aeroplanes configured for air combat can feasibly hit 12 Gee in a turn (12 times g0) with a pilot just about being able to manage that (black out briefly and recover) if he's fit, good, and so on but certainly no more, whereas the missiles can accelerate, in a straight line, at at least twice that and often turn at three or four times that. In other words, if the guidance system on the missile is able to accurately target the plane you cannot trivially avoid it because it's so fast and can turn better than you can.
In order to be effective (and thus believably used in the game) your missiles or torpedoes need to have similar traits and probably the same kind of gap. If TR6 is the top end of the kind of ships these missiles are being fired at, then running away from a missile with TR14 is obviously just as hopeless as a real life attempt to outrun an AIM-9 series missile is in real life, however it's going to be anything like as short a chase because in real life, the plane's straightline acceleration is more like TR4 and the missile's, as discussed above, more like TR25 (or even TR100!).
At the end of the day it mostly comes down to the kind of feel you want in the game when people start firing torpedoes / missiles at spacecraft: If you want "Oh shit! We're so dead!" then give them very high manoeuvre ratings, if you want "Hold on tight, I'm going to try and lose it..." make them a lot less quick. As an aside, in real life considerable effort is put into systems which make the target harder to acquire at all or else directly interfere with the missile's guidance and navigation.
P.S. Apologies if I am coming over as a bit 'ratty' I have a stupid chest infection / cough / flu thingy that is annoying the hell out of me at the moment and I might be projecting that a bit ;¬)
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
BUT, those accelerations are for much shorter durations (and distances) than we are talking about in Traveller.
Traveller missiles and torpedoes travel thousands of miles (in space), so a constant acceleration for half an hour at 16G seems pretty good. Also, remember that we are using a gravitic drive, not chemical rockets.
Since only a small number of ships will be able to accelerate even 1/3 that speed, missiles and torpedoes at 16G are going to catch just about anything in range, which is how it should be.
Traveller missiles and torpedoes travel thousands of miles (in space), so a constant acceleration for half an hour at 16G seems pretty good. Also, remember that we are using a gravitic drive, not chemical rockets.
Since only a small number of ships will be able to accelerate even 1/3 that speed, missiles and torpedoes at 16G are going to catch just about anything in range, which is how it should be.
