TL15/16 Dreadnought - What Weapons and Systems?

[Solomani666]

Designing a 1MT dreadnought at TL15/16:

Undecided if I should use the Darrian TL16 fuel consumption at 50% rule or not.

16 armor + reflec

Jump 4+ (6 if I use the Darrian rule)
M-Drive 6
Duel PP's

2x Meson D spinal mounts TL16

4+ launch tubes for drones (20t missles)

No missles, torps or sandcasters.

100 ton bays and turrets only.

Unsure about black globes

10 meson screens
10 dampeners
(6 plus backup)

2000+ beam laser or particle turrets
(these will be dropped if I can find some other way of defending against missles and fighters)

Suggestions needed.

 

[phavoc]

I haven't looked the Darrian starship design rules, so I'll just comment on the other aspects.

For such a large ship, I would think you would mount more torpedo bays than missiles. Dreadnoughts are designed to fight other large ships. Missiles don't have the punch that torpedoes have. You'll want to hit them hard.

You'd also still want defenses against their lasers, so I would put in sandcasters as well.

I would think you would want a mix of triple-beam lasers for defense against fighters and missiles, particle-beam barbettes for attacking secondary craft, and a mixture of 50 and 100 ton bays (fusion, missile/torp/meson) to engage craft at different ranges.

 

[Solomani666]

I haven't looked the Darrian starship design rules, so I'll just comment on the other aspects.

For such a large ship, I would think you would mount more torpedo bays than missiles. Dreadnoughts are designed to fight other large ships. Missiles don't have the punch that torpedoes have. You'll want to hit them hard.

You'd also still want defenses against their lasers, so I would put in sandcasters as well.

I would think you would want a mix of triple-beam lasers for defense against fighters and missiles, particle-beam barbettes for attacking secondary craft, and a mixture of 50 and 100 ton bays (fusion, missile/torp/meson) to engage craft at different ranges.

16 points of armor + 3 reflec = no sandcasters needed

 

[rust]

16 points of armor + 3 reflec = no sandcasters needed

Think of the bomb-pumped laser:

The bomb–pumped laser is a normal laser attack, but
deals 6d6 damage. The basic roll to hit is as a missile,
but is defended against as a laser.

With 6d6 damage the 16 points of armour + 3 reflec do not seem impene-
trable, and "is defended against as a laser" should mean that sandcasters
will defend against it.

 

[Solomani666]

16 points of armor + 3 reflec = no sandcasters needed

Think of the bomb-pumped laser:

The bomb–pumped laser is a normal laser attack, but
deals 6d6 damage. The basic roll to hit is as a missile,
but is defended against as a laser.

With 6d6 damage the 16 points of armour + 3 reflec do not seem impene-
trable, and "is defended against as a laser" should mean that sandcasters
will defend against it.

Good point!

Do you think that 2000 beam laser turrets will be enough to protect the ship from these without casters?

 

[rust]

Do you think that 2000 beam laser turrets will be enough to protect the ship from these without casters?

It depends on how many other missiles and torpedoes of which types the
opponents are likely to use. If I were the captain of the ship, I probably
would prefer to have some sandcasters, too, because I would also think of
those 8d6 damage against boarders - a nice way to fight them without any
risk to damage my own ship.

 

[apoc527]

I think the bomb-pumped lasers are triggered beyond normal point defense ranges, making them harder to kill with lasers. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong. Sand casters would still work though.

 

[Solomani666]

Do you think that 2000 beam laser turrets will be enough to protect the ship from these without casters?

It depends on how many other missiles and torpedoes of which types the
opponents are likely to use. If I were the captain of the ship, I probably
would prefer to have some sandcasters, too, because I would also think of
those 8d6 damage against boarders - a nice way to fight them without any
risk to damage my own ship.

Boarding the vessel would be suicide. They would even open the airlock so as not to damage it. (but turn on the sections internal damper field incase they brought a surprise with them.) You are dealing with a race that if you are over 10 years old, to leave ones house without a sword or dagger is to go out naked. And 12 year olds usually carry guns to school.

Outside of system and base defence they shun ordinance, mostly for logistical reasons. Their fleets require little if no support craft. And all ships are streamlined and able to make a planetary landing, including battleships, carriers and dreadnoughts.

 

[Solomani666]

I haven't looked the Darrian starship design rules, so I'll just comment on the other aspects.

For such a large ship, I would think you would mount more torpedo bays than missiles. Dreadnoughts are designed to fight other large ships. Missiles don't have the punch that torpedoes have. You'll want to hit them hard.

You'd also still want defenses against their lasers, so I would put in sandcasters as well.

I would think you would want a mix of triple-beam lasers for defense against fighters and missiles, particle-beam barbettes for attacking secondary craft, and a mixture of 50 and 100 ton bays (fusion, missile/torp/meson) to engage craft at different ranges.

The Darrian Sigma (TL16) uses only 50% of the normal fuel cost.

They will probably use 20 ton suicide drones if I can ever figure out how much damage a torpedo warhead does when it explodes inside of a ship.

Going to nix the fusion weapons completely in favor of particle weapons.

All bays will be 100 tons.

 

[far-trader]

I think the bomb-pumped lasers are triggered beyond normal point defense ranges, making them harder to kill with lasers. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong. Sand casters would still work though.

I concur. The point with bomb pumped lasers is that the damage is delivered by the laser, so the defense is going to be vs that (sand or whatever). The missile delivery system goes only as far as the presumed range of the anti-missile defenses. Though...

...an interesting variation just hit me. Suppose that a bomb-pumped laser missile were multifunctional. Launch as a missile, if the defender throws up anti-missile defenses it detonates early as a regular bomb-pumped laser and only has to deal with sand (or whatever). If the defender has no anti-missile defenses it stays the course and becomes a standard (ish) nuke missile. Attacker's choice, alterable on the fly over turns.

And of course the Defender could play a bit of bluff with the defenses against it as well. Could make combat more interesting, and would mean ships would probably have to consider defenses a bit more.

 

[Solomani666]

I think the bomb-pumped lasers are triggered beyond normal point defense ranges, making them harder to kill with lasers. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong. Sand casters would still work though.

I concur. The point with bomb pumped lasers is that the damage is delivered by the laser, so the defense is going to be vs that (sand or whatever). The missile delivery system goes only as far as the presumed range of the anti-missile defenses. Though...

...an interesting variation just hit me. Suppose that a bomb-pumped laser missile were multifunctional. Launch as a missile, if the defender throws up anti-missile defenses it detonates early as a regular bomb-pumped laser and only has to deal with sand (or whatever). If the defender has no anti-missile defenses it stays the course and becomes a standard (ish) nuke missile. Attacker's choice, alterable on the fly over turns.

And of course the Defender could play a bit of bluff with the defenses against it as well. Could make combat more interesting, and would mean ships would probably have to consider defenses a bit more.

Very cool idea

 

[locarno24]

I think the bomb-pumped lasers are triggered beyond normal point defense ranges, making them harder to kill with lasers. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong. Sand casters would still work though.

High Guard:
"Point defence can be used, but suffers a –2DM due to the fact the bomb–pumped laser can be used in a stand–off role."

 

[rust]

They would even open the airlock so as not to damage it. (but turn on the sections internal damper field incase they brought a surprise with them.) You are dealing with a race that if you are over 10 years old, to leave ones house without a sword or dagger is to go out naked. And 12 year olds usually carry guns to school.

In which case it would be logical for the race's opponents to use sizeable
units of well armoured and armed combat robots for boarding operations,
and to open the airlocks to them would just be a stupid way of committing
suicide.

 

[locarno24]

In which case it would be logical for the race's opponents to use sizeable units of well armoured and armed combat robots for boarding operations, and to open the airlocks to them would just be a stupid way of committing suicide.

Now there's a thought. Been wondering about something to follow up the SLAM pod ideas with - I wonder how torpedo-deployed combat robots would work.....

 

[rust]

Well, according to the CSC advanced battle dress costs 3.5 Mio Credits
at TL 14, and at least with the German Roboter supplement for Mongoo-
se Traveller (the one I prefer to use) one can build a very impressive TL
14 combat robot with an Intelligence of 8 for less than 2.0 Mio. Credits,
so it would not make much sense to use humans for dangerous missions
like the first wave of a boarding.

 

[Solomani666]

So what size boarding party do you think you would need to sieze a 1Mton ship with its crew of 6000+ all wearing power armor? And how would you even get close enough to board her and survive?

.

 

[barnest2]

The whole crew wears power armour?.... knife drones... failing that, small robots, all of which are an armoured shell built around a pocket nuke. As soon as they get close to enemy crew, they blow up. There wouldn't be much ship left to seize, but there wouldn't be any crew left :twisted:

 

[phavoc]

So what size boarding party do you think you would need to sieze a 1Mton ship with its crew of 6000+ all wearing power armor? And how would you even get close enough to board her and survive?

.

Point One - Assuming you were able to disable the dreadnought, its going to have taken a lot of damage. Which means those 6000+ crew are going to be a lot fewer.

Point Two - Defenders always have the advantage, knowing the terrain, having intelligence, and defending gives you a lot of advantages. However, defending also means you have to defend all the key points of the ship with enough defenders to stop an attack. With a depleted crew, its going to be next to impossible to defend everywhere. Which means you'll have to concentrate on defending key points in your ship. The attackers will be able to board where they want (there will be plenty of holes to go in by this time). So assuming you suffered 50% casualties, I'd say you'd want to board the ship with at least 1,000 marines. Who would also, if they were smart, be in combat armor and heavy weapons, plus combat drones. They would target engineering and control sections. If they didn't care about capturing the crew it would be a very bloody battle. Plasma weapons inside a ship do a lot of damage.

Point Three - If you had such a blood-thirsty combat-driven race to fight, it doesn't seem like it would be of much use to try and capture any of them. Which means you'll kill them as fast as you can. Attackers would most likely deploy heavy weapon squads for boarding. If I wanted something specific from them, that I knew generally where it was at, I'd bring my cruisers and heavier ships closer to the wreck and destroy the power plants, thus taking away the life support and anti-gravity for deck plates. Plus that means shipboard weapons would be powered down as well. Then I'd use my weapons to carve holes into the ship near where I wanted to go. Rather than use potentially booby-trapped corridors, I'd make my own and open that ship up like a tin can. Of course, if I wanted to actually capture it for potential salvage, I would have to alter those plans.

 

[locarno24]

So what size boarding party do you think you would need to sieze a 1Mton ship with its crew of 6000+ all wearing power armor?

A hell of a big one.

That said, whilst it seems daft at first glance 6,000 suits of decent powered plate (assuming just normal TL14 battle dress) is some 21 billion credits worth of hardware over and above the cost of the crew and ship. That said again, that kind of pales against the price of the ship, so why not?

Add in a TL16, Megatonne hull, even with a sphere comes to 160 billion credits. Add in another two and a half times that for the armour. 100 billion for a jump-4 engine. Dual powerplants - assuming what is low-tech junk to these people - another 250 billion. 21 billion's worth of weaponry on the defensive turrets and spinal mounts alone. I don't have Traders and Gunboats so can't comment on the drone tubes.


As a result, this thing will be taking on significant chunks of sector fleets. Big boarding parties can be aquired.

And how would you even get close enough to board her and survive?

Actually, probably not so bad. With the distinct emphasis on big guns rather than secondary defenses, she's not well suited to fending off flocks of smaller craft. The S&P 84 64 dTon Boarding Shuttle comes in at under 42 MCr, meaning you could have a flock of 11,000 of the little buggers for the price of the systems listed above. And there's no garuantee that the borders have orders to capture her.

I know you'd prefer not to need the laser turrets, but they really are important for stuff like this.

Big torpedo salvoes are another one: a backside-load of , for example SLAM pods can put out a worryingly threatening volley - when facing literally thousands of bomb-pumped torpedoes, if they manage to get even a '10% hit' result they can potentially wreck the ship - about 13,000 barrage damage would do it.

 

[rust]

So what size boarding party do you think you would need to sieze a 1Mton ship with its crew of 6000+ all wearing power armor? And how would you even get close enough to board her and survive?

If the crew were at full strength, I would think that 18,000 combat robots
should be able to do the job, with a ship sufficiently battle damaged to be
boarded about 9,000 should be sufficient - if there are any major pockets
of resistance, some fire support from nearby warships can usually take
them out.

Getting close enough to board the ship is a secondary problem. The first
step would be to overload its defences with missiles and torpedoes, and
then to send in some drones to eliminate the still active weapons and any
still functioning sensors, auxiliary drives and thelike. Afterwards getting
close enough for boarding is a comparatively easy task for space mobile
robots.