Theatrical Presentation

[rgrove0172]

In the past I approached my GMing with a decidedly theartrical air, in that I would minimize the "game" aspect and maximize the "story". I would refrain from using game terminology (hit points, experience levels, turns etc.) and instead described the events of the game in a realistic manner. The rules of the game were of course circulating in the background but werent the focus. Players would announce their intentions in real terms and I would translate them into game mechanics, then translate the outcome again into real world descriptions. This worked well and most of my players complimented me on a thrilling experience that felt more like a movie or well written book than a typical game.

Now Im gaming in d20 and finding that the system is heavily influeced by a skirmish-miniatures flair. Try as I may Im finding it very difficult to dismiss the "game" as the players continually have to plot/plan/act in tune with the mechanics. If I blur these points (perhaps just moving a character a given distance and not the EXACT distance) or describe something that appears against the rules, (relating how an enemy slashes at the character as he approaches only to have him claim that he is not eligible for a AOO) then the game often breaks down. Eventually Im hedged into playing out the scene like a skirmish wargame instead of a roleplaying experience.

Has anyone else faced this difficulty and how have you dealt with it?

 

[TheSlayer]

The way I try to integrate a little more flavour into the combat is to give numerical bonuses or penalties to players who are "theatrical" in their descriptions of what their characters want to do for the round.

I find it really breaks the wargame feel of combat and quite often makes for entertaining and amusing events inside combat.

I have a lot of large skirmish style battles in my campaign and noticed that players who were awaiting their turn would almost be falling asleep waiting for the number crunching to get to them , but when I added the incentive of bonuses for roleplaying my players enjoyed it a lot more.

 

[Sutek]

Rember these facts:

The roll To Hit is just a vague representation of many actual swings or shots that are directed at a target, of which some may culminate into something effective resulting in "damage".

Damage is not even really damage, but is an amalgam of wounds, fatigue, deterioration of combat resolve and probably a lot of other factors too esoteric to mention. When you "hit" you do "damage", but this may mean simply that the last flurry of blows made your opponent slightly less certain about winning the combat with you just as much as it might mean that you cut off two of his fingertips at his sword hilt.

D20 is very vague and it's not often seen that way because we like the sound of saying "I rolled and hit for 42 points of damage", visualizing that as being 42 points of bloody gash somehow.

But it isn't.

You can still describe any hit as missing, or any miss as hitting but being ineffective, and do all that describing in a cinematic (or theatrical) way. Another way to highlight that approach is to simply not let on how much "damage" is being dealt to any of your players as they inflict it, coupoled with letting foes die when it seems appropriate. For instance, if a character deals loads of damage in one critical shot of a bow, it may feel more appropriate in the moment to simply describe the result as being an instant kill whether the foe still has 3 hp left or not.

I think you're getting too caught up in the grid and the fig placement and seeing that as interfering with your normal instict to have everything be more fantastic and heroic.

It doesn't have to be.

 

[Oly]

D20's really not the system for doing a rules light/narrative heavy style of gaming. It's a crunchy rules heavy gamer based system.

If you try and run a more narrative style of game with it then not only are you potentially making a lot of work for yourself in tracking things behind the scenes but you're also missing out on a lot of D20s strengths when it comes to representing detailed combat.

Sutek's advice goes a long way to making a more narrative friendly D20 and it's stuff that I use in most of my games to stop it feeling like a war game when combat breaks out. It won't however take away that level of crunch and detail, it's a part of what D20 is for both good and bad.

If you want a truly narrative style of gaming then head for a more abstract system. Have you considered something like Pendragon, D6 Fantasy or even Fudge. They're very much more rules lighter when compare to many other games yet alone D20. They also sound like they'll fit your GMing style. Personally I may well be starting a side campaign in Pendragon next year to give me a break from the rules heavy D20 world of Conan.

I'm not knocking D20 at all, I still think it's a great system. But it is a rules heavy system and that is either it's strength or it's weakness depending on what you're after.

 

[rgrove0172]

Oh Ive played my fill of "rules lite" systems and honestly what attracted me to Conan and d20 was the departure from them. Knowing pretty much exactly what happens in any given case is a bit of a restriction sure but is also pretty comforting. I found in most of those other systems that my impression of a given situation and opinion on the vaious factors involved were more of a determining factor than stats, skills or die rolls. I wanted to get back to a system where the characters do the fighting and the game sort of "plays itself" all I do is set up the situation. The trouble of course is not bogging down in the decription of all this detail and moving the game at a good pace in spite of it.

 

[Oly]

Yeah that's the downside of rules-light games, it's what's kept me with Conan D20 rather than using some other system and just taking the background from the Moongoose books (for which they are excellent).

Have you tried Pendragon or Stormbringer? They're both still relatively crunchy when compared to really light games but offer various degrees of simplification, Pendragon more so than Stormbringer.

It might also be worth considering Mongoose RQ, there's meant to be a book on the way to help convert the Conan D20 into it so the Moongoose books will stay especially useful.

 

[Sutek]

rgrove, the d20 system gets easier to anticipate as you go, and that comfort of expectation level helps make the flow go more smoothly once everyone around the table has the steps down pat.

That's the real challenge, and what you may be facing at this point - that the players are trying ot get used to the new mechanical stuff, and as you all try to work it out, you keep hitting bumps that slow you down somewhat.

You just have to raise your Knowledge (D20 system) skill ranks...lol

 

[Trodax]

Have you tried Pendragon or Stormbringer? They're both still relatively crunchy when compared to really light games but offer various degrees of simplification, Pendragon more so than Stormbringer.

I might also recommend Savage Worlds; it is a solid system that "covers all situations" in the same way that d20 does, but manages to be much lighter and faster to run. I think it would do Conan very well.

Myself, I actually really like the tactical mini-game that you get in d20 combat, minis and AoO and all that. It is probably not the best system if you want to run it in a more theatrical fashion as you describe, though.

 

[Sutek]

I think you missed the part where he said he didn't want a "rules light" system.

 

[Oly]

I think you missed the part where he said he didn't want a "rules light" system.

Well there's "rules light" and there's "rules lighter than D20".

Even with most of my players knowing D20 well and their Conan characters better it takes a lot of cooperation from them to get things running as smoothly as I'm happy with. Trying to hide the rules from them and taking that on myself would either mean a very slow game or stripping away much of the complexity, which means taking away D20's strengths while still having it's weak points.

Again I'll add the standard comment that this isn't a D20 bashing post. There's about a dozen systems that I own and know well enough to GM but D20's the one that I choose for Conan because, as with Trodax, I want the detail that it brings.

 

[rgrove0172]

You just have to raise your Knowledge (D20 system) skill ranks...lol

Good analogy and I think your right on target. Ive been pondering this since I posted the question and I think it is a matter of all of us, myself and the players, becoming more comfortable with the system. I know it well enough to play through most situations but dont know it well enough to play through the situations without difficulty, if you know what I mean - which means my concentration level is on playing correctly instead of playing theatrically. I guess it will come in time.

As for other systems, I have no desire to try anything else at the moment. As I said Ive played many systems in the past from the mega-complexity of ICE's Rolemaster to the ultra simple Savage Worlds and I ended up here. I plan on giving d20 a good long run before even considering moving on. It has a sort of nostalgic feel that takes me back to my earliest D&D days as a kid - which I sort of enjoy, and it appears to capture the Conan mythos pretty accurately. Right now Im convinced its the way to go, I just have to learn to work the rules better.

 

[Oly]

Good analogy and I think your right on target. Ive been pondering this since I posted the question and I think it is a matter of all of us, myself and the players, becoming more comfortable with the system. I know it well enough to play through most situations but dont know it well enough to play through the situations without difficulty, if you know what I mean - which means my concentration level is on playing correctly instead of playing theatrically. I guess it will come in time.

Sorry for taking things off on a tangent, I thought you were trying to hide the rules and game speak from the players as much as possible so them being more familiar with them wouldn't have been of help.

Having players that know the rules for D20 is a fantastic help.

What I did was to prepare little cards with the rules on for some of their more complicated feats or skills. Thus, for example, when I come around to a player with Combat Expertise they can just say to me "I'm using combat expertise and fighting defensively", they know how it works and will modify their own defence and attack scores.

That keeps the game moving along swiftly and means that I have to stop the flow and break into "game speak" as little as possible.

The rules are still there grinding away in the background but most of it is now unspoken and combats, even huge melees, flow dramatically as I feel they should.

Something else that I really picked up on when I first moved over to D20 was how important just saying "this is how it works for now" or "OK you've got until your next turn, quickly check the rules" is. After a combat I may check and apologise for something and then explain how it'll be dealt with in future but during the fight I'd rather get the rules wrong and have it quick than be checking something every couple of turns.

 

[rgrove0172]

Something else that I really picked up on when I first moved over to D20 was how important just saying "this is how it works for now" or "OK you've got until your next turn, quickly check the rules" is. After a combat I may check and apologise for something and then explain how it'll be dealt with in future but during the fight I'd rather get the rules wrong and have it quick than be checking something every couple of turns.

Your absolutely right. I had this discussion with my players but I think it bares repeating before our next session. If Im unclear about particular mechanic, Id much rather make a not, wing it on the fly, then take a closer look at it after the session is over. Stopping to paw through a rule book is a kiss of death.

 

[Sutek]

And the cool thing is that it usually works wrong anyway.

That's a sign of a good system.

...okay...I'm all done pimping D20 to everyone now...