The Weight of a Silver Piece?

[librarycharlie]

Rules of High Living take care of the hordes snagged by my players, but a very serious question was raised by a "Light-footed" thief.

How much does a silver piece weigh?

In my game, coins from different lands weigh different amounts based on purity, slivering of the edges, etc. But for a standardization perspective, we've agreed that two Brythunian coins might have the weight-value of a single Acheronian coin.

I've basically house ruled it at 25 coins (in value) to a pound.

This way, the thief with a 20 lb maximum for light-foot can carry only about 300 silver pieces plus equipment (rope, swords, torches, lockpicks, etc.).

I wanted to see if there was a codified bit that I'd missed, or conventional wisdom to suggest something more realistic.

 

[Spectator]

How many US quarters make up a pound?

 

[Axerules]

From the SRD:

The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (fifty to the pound).

Hope that helps.

 

[merkkari-masa]

thx looks good list.

 

[throrII]

While the SRD (and conventional D&D) give coin weights as 50 to the pound (about 1/3 ounce per coin, or about 9 grams per coin), real life ancient coins were not nearly that large.

The Roman denarius was the standard silver coin for hundreds of years (in various configurations) and was worth a days wage for the unskilled. So it is similar in style and means to the D&D or Conan silver piece. The denarius was a mere 3-5 grams, depending on the era (less than half of what a D&D coin weighs).

Greek silver coins from earlier eras (drachm) which had similar value, also were of the 3-4gram weight ranges.

Silver pennies and pfennig, medieval coins from England and Germany, also followed similar patterns.

D&D coins have always been much larger than real life ancient and medieval coins. D&D coins are usually the size of the old fashioned half-dollar coins. Real ancient coins and medieval pennies were about the size of a US dime.

Personally, since Conan has jettisoned much of what is silly about D&D, for my campaigns I jettison the 50 to the pound rule (1/3 ounce) for a 100 to the pound (4 gram) coin.

 

[Halfbat]

D&D coins have always been much larger than real life ancient and medieval coins.

Not quite right. There are instances where the staple or core coinage was around 50 to the pound, which is where I assume D&D first got it from.

 

[throrII]

OK, I couldn't sleep, and decided to do the math:

gold weighs 19.3 grams per cc.
silver weighs 10.49 grams per cc.

A D&D gold coin (1/3 ounce; 50/lb) would be the size of a US nickel.

A D&D silver coin (1/3 ounce; 50/lb) would be the size of a US Susan B Anthony dollar.

A Roman silver denarius averaged 3-4 grams, and was the size of a US penny. Same goes for a Greek drachm.

A medieval silver penny (or pfennig in central Europe) averaged 1.3 grams only, about the size of a US dime, but only half as thick.

 

[librarycharlie]

Excellent insights, thanks to all!

Because the Europeans had rather impressive smelting techniques and measuring devices and most of the countries my heroes march through are somewhat unsophisticated, I'm ruling that they use larger, less-pure coinage with similar values to European pennies and the like. It helps me keep the hordes in check a bit, but if we ever get Aquilonian coins, perhaps they'll find the civilized world has very different coinage.

 

[Clovenhoof]

*unholy thread necromancy*

I was just skimming through the last months' threads and so stumbled upon this one. The topic seems to be "through" but I am surprised that the most obvious conversion has not been mentioned at all: the one known from the old British Pound Sterling, which actually dates back to Carolingian times.

As the name implies, the master unit is a pound of silver. For centuries (from 9th century down to the 1960s or so) it was broken up as follows:
1 pound = 20 shilling
1 shilling = 12 pence (hence, the famous "sixpence" is half a shilling)
--> 1 pound = 240 pence.

In the middle ages, 1 penny was the daily wage for a labourer. The penny was also coined so that it could be halved and quartered. A quarter of penny was the smalled conceivable monetary value. Does that sound familar to you?

So it's quite easy: 240 silver pieces to a pound. With the English pound being 452g, that would be 1,88g/sp. However, the original Carolingian pound was a bit less, at 406g, so a penny was just 1,7g of silver.

Basing values on the dozen has the advantage that 12 is divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6, whereas 10 is only divisible by 2 and 5. So for pre-modern cultures, using bases like 12 or 20 makes more sense than using base 10.

For our game, I'm using the Carolingian method with 240sp to a pound. It's not even necessary to determine how many metric grams a pound is -- it's probably something between 400 and 500 grams and that's good enough for everybody.

 

[Hervé]

Well, in our campaigns we don't really bother about money's weight. I don't even use the High Cost of Living rule, as my players don't need it to spend all their hard won money on earthly pleasures (and sometimes more than what they got, just as in real life!). I would only use the encumbrance rules if the party is carrying sacks of gold out of some dark temple crowded with bloodthirsty cultists or in some other nasty situation. That how I feel Conan gaming should be: trivial details should not interfere with the feel of high adventure. Unfortunately, the d20 system tends to focus a bit too much on these trivial details.

 

[Clovenhoof]

On the contrary, Dr Watson. d20 is already vastly simplifying in terms of carrying capacity. You just keep track of the weight, end of story. "You pick up the ladder and put it in your pocket."
It just reminds me of one episode of "DM of the Rings", but I can't find it now. It was like "You carried that around with you all the time? Where did you keep it?" - "Uh.... in my pack."
And let's face it, with the D&D-typical habit of collecting stuff, you just have to have bags of holding and whatnot. Especially with silver and gold weighing so much due to monstrous coins.

In Conan, things are easier because you need much less gear. And it's no problem to plausibly define where and how you carry what. And if you use the Carolingian system of 240sp to a pound, the characters can carry thousands of silver without a problem. Larger amounts need to be stored in the form of gems. Gems are the magic word for transporting enormous wealth, anyway.

EDIT: found the strip I was looking for. Enjoy:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=984

 

[Spectator]

Thank Cloven Hoof, I really enjoyed the link as well, that is some funny stuff!

 

[Strom]

Thanks for the link Clovenhoof - I'm loving it! :lol:

Someone should hook up the Conan movies with a similar comic strip.