The Torpedo Bomber

[Chas]

Okay, so the nice thing about playing about with rules in the Beta stage is that if there is a particular game element you want, you can rustle up some rules to allow that feature to have a place.

What I'm looking at is the torpedo bomber, so important to fleets that it has a definition to itself in the glossary, yet the reality is it is still looking for its niche. Despite entire nations supposedly preferring smaller craft and are successful doing it.

So I'm going to address this with a weapon option for people's consideration. (this could go over in the high thrust thread but it's getting a bit cluttered over there)

The Short Torpedo
A torpedo option that can be applied to any current torpedo with no change in cost. Where the bulk of the fuel is replaced with a special small high thrust burner, which shrinks the torpedo size such that a vessel of 50 to 99 tons may carry 3 as a barbette, taking up 5 tons of space.

The Short Torpedo has the following features:
- It can only be fired from Close or Short ranges
- It is never smart. It only has fuel for one attack run and then burns out.
- It cannot be affected by electronic attack
- When the launching ship has moved through the medium range band, the torpedo gains + 1 to hit when launched from a ship of thrust 10 -19, it gains +2 to hit when launched from a ship of thrust of 20 or more. A launching ship must use the required thrust fuel amount for the same turn to gain this bonus.
- It is -4 to hit against a ship of 50 tons or less, -2 to hit against a ship of 100 tons or less. It gains +1 to hit against a ship of 1000tons or more. It gains +2 to hit against a ship 10,000 tons or more.

To clarify the movement through the medium range band a torpedo bomber ship after an initial attack coming in, needs to effectively fly away and then back at the target ship. Not a big deal in the rules set for the attacking craft, it represents the actual 'bombing run.' Note regardless of the thrust used the bomber ends the turn in the range band it fired its torpedo.

 

[phavoc]

You really shouldn't need any special mounting for a missile or torpedo on a fighter/bomber craft. All you need to do is have a mounting mechanism sufficiently strong to support holding the missile/torpedo to the launching craft.

Think underwing/underbelly mounts for bombs and torpedoes that aircraft use today. A small amount of displacement should be sufficient for any structural and mechanical mountings you may want. You could even mount them internally for no displacement cost - or externally so that they just count against your maneuvering (increased mass).

If small craft get looked at more closely, more complete rules should be developed to accommodate the differences in loaded vs. unloaded. Would that necessitate a new set of rules for small craft exclusively? I don't think so... the goal should be some accommodation, not the wholesale creation of small craft rules.

 

[Chas]

To be honest I have to agree. Also I'm not a fan of overly complicated rules specialization.

A fighter able to incorporate 5 tons of barbette space into its build should be able to fire and stock torpedoes just like the barbette does.

I just liked the flavor and perhaps there might something there to have a nod towards that, giving high thrust torpedeo launches a hit bonus.

 

[phavoc]

Unless the small craft is carrying the weapons internally, there shouldn't be any sort of barbette or turret aspect to it. It's just clamps to hold the missiles/torpedo against the craft, some wiring for the controls, and add the software to the ships systems and you should be good to go.

The only time a barbette or turret would come into play was if the ship was mounting a true turret or barbetted, instead of carrying the weapon in a fixed mount. Then something like that would come into play. Or at least should.

 

[Chas]

I was thinking in terms of game balance and relative sizes, the clamps or whatever to take the torpedoes to use 5 tons of a sub 100 ton craft.

 

[Nerhesi]

Yeah - simply allow smallcraft to launch missiles/torps right up to close-range.

Also - allow them to carry as many torps as they have space for. Launching perhaps only X-per turn, where X is 1 for up to 50 tons, and 2 is for > 50 tons.

 

[phavoc]

In theory they should be able to carry as much tonnage as they can push with their maneuver engines. In reality it would be somewhat constrained. Not to mention that exposed weapons like that might make them more vulnerable to sympathetic detonations if they take any damage (or even loss of maneuverability if they are carrying - kind of like how real world aircraft are until they drop their external stores). Though the existing rules really don't cover that.

If small craft become viable in Traveller then an entire supplement could be devoted towards small craft that deals with carrier rules - new equipment like elevators, hangars, flight deck operations, flight deck crews, etc. For pure RPG'ers it's mostly a waste of electrons and/or trees, but some people like that sort of detail to play around with.

 

[Nerhesi]

If small craft become viable in Traveller then an entire supplement could be devoted towards small craft that deals with carrier rules - new equipment like elevators, hangars, flight deck operations, flight deck crews, etc. For pure RPG'ers it's mostly a waste of electrons and/or trees, but some people like that sort of detail to play around with.

Hmm.. I wonder who was working on that supplement...

 

[phavoc]

If small craft become viable in Traveller then an entire supplement could be devoted towards small craft that deals with carrier rules - new equipment like elevators, hangars, flight deck operations, flight deck crews, etc. For pure RPG'ers it's mostly a waste of electrons and/or trees, but some people like that sort of detail to play around with.

Hmm.. I wonder who was working on that supplement...

I'm sure there's been a few ideas where pen was put to paper :lol:

 

[wbnc]

If small craft become viable in Traveller then an entire supplement could be devoted towards small craft that deals with carrier rules - new equipment like elevators, hangars, flight deck operations, flight deck crews, etc. For pure RPG'ers it's mostly a waste of electrons and/or trees, but some people like that sort of detail to play around with.

Hmm.. I wonder who was working on that supplement...

I'm sure there's been a few ideas where pen was put to paper :lol:

walks away whistling a merry tune..Oh yeah someone will definitely have ideas along that line...Trussssttt me I am sure of it

just getting it written, and accepted is the fun part.

unfortunately for me it would be third in line behind a rework of my first supplement to fit the new rules, a second supplement of military/combat ships, and then the small craft project would get it's turn...

the probelm is that while games/campaigns centered around a military style setting, where the sort of craft, ships, and hardware associated with it tend to be in the minority of sought after adventures..

 

[Nerhesi]

Check your msgs

But back on topic. Very much in favour of torpedo allotment = whatever space they can have, then a supplement can treat with external mounting.

 

[phavoc]

Yeah, as far as 'official' things go... that's where I think the magazine really shined. Now there's the Compendium, but it's pretty slow to cycle out, and definitely not cheap! I like to support some of the alternatives like Freelance Traveller to send out ideas and such. Fan support of the community can be a great thing.

 

[wbnc]

Check your msgs

But back on topic. Very much in favour of torpedo allotment = whatever space they can have, then a supplement can treat with external mounting.

Messages Checked !!!!!!

Carrying torpedoes externally has advantages. One of them is that rules for external cargo clamps now exist in draft form. A storage point for a torpedo could be a slightly tweaked external cargo mount.

But id have to say that a weapon would either have to have the "smart" trait, or be as dumb as a box of rocks to be used fro an external mount...accuracy would be down to how well the the pilot pointed the weapon in the right direction and pulled the trigger.

the limitations of WWII torpedoes was largely responsible for a lot of pilot deaths, they had to close to extremely close ranges at low levels and low speeds to keep the run-time of the torpedo as short as possible...technically the torpedoes had some rudimentary guidance, but that was basically to keep them running in a straight line from release.

 

[AndrewW]

Carrying torpedoes externally has advantages. One of them is that rules for external cargo clamps now exist in draft form. A storage point for a torpedo could be a slightly tweaked external cargo mount.

External cargo already exists in Book 6: Scoundrel.

 

[Chas]

Shouldn't be any particular need to external mount torpedoes, unless you're getting down into miniature fighters. The weight saving isn't going to break the build balance. At 3 torpedoes / ton it would make I think a more rational balance to have these internal loading into an actual launcher which you might want to add weight to, just like the way the barbette is defined, to keep things under control. A close hanger for ships is +10%, so if you think 1.1 tons can effectively hold the torps the rest is fire control and loading mechanisms in the 5 tons of barbette. If they're fixed point you can easily chop a big chunk of that back. But should you? The current fighter builds have tonnage and power to spare with full M drives and full TL armor. This will want to be put in the balance. You're really only considering the amount Reaction drive in such a craft when trade-offs are concerned currently.

It might be better to see the final High Guard rules and general larger craft balance, and then tweak the bomber to suit.

 

[phavoc]

Did I miss the tonnage drop for torps? They used to be 2.5tons each.

 

[Chas]

Three torpedoes consume 1 ton

Just under the torpedoes heading.

 

[AndrewW]

Did I miss the tonnage drop for torps? They used to be 2.5tons each.

Yup, they where.