The TL of battledress

[apoc527]

Has always seemed a little high to me.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/28/raytheons-sarcos-xos-2-military-exoskeleton-just-does-the-heavy/

I mean, look what we have NOW at the beginning of TL8. I don't think that a full power suit of armor is 5 TLs away...

 

[far-trader]

Has always seemed a little high to me.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/28/raytheons-sarcos-xos-2-military-exoskeleton-just-does-the-heavy/

I mean, look what we have NOW at the beginning of TL8. I don't think that a full power suit of armor is 5 TLs away...

But one that can run for days(?) on an internal fusion powerplant, with life support, and armor that can defeat many portable weapons might just be

I've long had (since Alien premiered) Power-Loaders in my game at TL9. Battle Dress without the armor and such, and little bulkier. And room inside one to wear some Combat Armor. Voila, the poor-mans BD

And I vaguely recall (unless it was something I made up for MTU) some previous rules source for Traveller having lower TL Battle Dress, so it is doable.

 

[rinku]

The equipment list in the basic book isn't the final word on the matter.

Clearly, bulkier, more primitive powered suits are possible. I'd expect the upcoming Battledress to address this. From memory, the old Fire, Fusion & Steel allowed earlier tech exoskeletons, apart from vehicle walker designs.

 

[AndrewW]

The equipment list in the basic book isn't the final word on the matter.

Clearly, bulkier, more primitive powered suits are possible. I'd expect the upcoming Battledress to address this. From memory, the old Fire, Fusion & Steel allowed earlier tech exoskeletons, apart from vehicle walker designs.

Power Armour does cover various types of suits including much lower TL ones, though those ones aren't battledress.

 

[rust]

The technology to produce powered armour is almost there, just take a
look at a civilian equivalent, the HAL Exosuit produced in Japan:
http://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/robotsuithal/index.html

Cyberdyne has solved the main problem, the precise control with nerve
signals. With this mostly out of the way, more powerful exosuits with an
armoured shell would already be possible, although there is currently a
lot more interest in civilian than in military applications.

 

[rust]

By the way, if one puts a next TL version of the HAL Exosuit (see above)
over a next generation version of the MIT BioSuit ...:
http://mvl.mit.edu/eva/biosuit/index.html
... and adds advanced batteries (for example superconductor loops), an
advanced life support system (for example one using PSA technology), a
communicator and some sensors, one has the standard planetary explo-
ration suit used in my settings at TL 9.

 

[BP]

Hmm... that website looks very suspicious - not sure how many grains of salt to attribute to the HAL suit...

I like to believe such things, I really do - hence I had to do a little digging on this one.

Sadly, looks like a non-practical prototype, and I found nothing but the normal gossip/farce sites to back anything up... and numerous non-realized promises of production dating back to 2004 (and references to Swiss actually refer to a 'marketing and sales office' and the guy who took a handicapped man up a mountain turns out to be a media marketing guy).

I think this was simply the result of a funded science project by a delusional 'scientist' - I've actually worked on a project with one of those! Anybody can call themselves a scientist - there are no formal requirements. The guy I worked with had a degree and 12 years at a viable research lab with the title - but the truth (as I discovered) was that he had been one of the lowest ranked in his formal education (and had mostly failed all advanced classes) and his actual job had really been as a 'tinkerer', not what I would call a scientist (i.e. he did everything by trial and mostly error till something someone else almost had working 'worked'). These guys are great dreamers - but they themselves can never actually 'produce' anything (not that they don't have value on a team - tinkerers can come in handy, though often expensive and unreliable!).

Having also assisted with bio-feedback and optical control systems for handicapped, I'm pretty sure reading the neuro-electrical signal of nerve impulses externally is very limited in practical information to do what is being represented.

I found it interesting that the other 'product' being offered is a '46 inch multi-touch OEM display' - for almost $30,000 come this November - but with no actual pictures, just some stolen art and one render.

 

[Jame Rowe]

I have recently become a fan (well, less so than most others) of Battletech; I wouldn't mind seeing Protomechs as TL-10 battledress.

 

[rust]

Sadly, looks like a non-practical prototype, and I found nothing but the normal gossip/farce sites to back anything up...

The guy who keeps working on the HAL Exosuit is the Director of the Di-
vision of Advanced Robotics and Cybernetics of Tsukuba University, a
rather prestigious university (three nobel laureates ...):
http://www.utarc.iit.tsukuba.ac.jp/index.html

Cyberdyne, the company founded to market the HAL Exosuit, has been
founded and is owned by Tsukuba University:
http://sanlab.kz.tsukuba.ac.jp/english/

So, while the project may develop much more slowly than originally ho-
ped for, it is indeed genuine research and development. And while I al-
so doubt that a functional version of the suit will be marketed within the
next five years, I think that the remaining problems may well be solved
in less than ten years.

The Danish Government seems at least to think that it is worth a try even
now:
http://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/events/20091224_4.html

 

[BP]

Yep - saw those (and several more, including a paper from rice university (that turned out to be a student again just quoting the website and no actual, solid, independent sources), but the last two appear to just be the normal fluff and as to the first, while the doctor and the university are legitimate, it doesn't mean anything in terms of the reality of his vision... (and, not to say this guy is anything of the sort, but 'quacks', especially tenured ones, are financially supported by university's (and big business) all the time - they are great for marketing and recruitment!).

My comments are in response to = 'Cyberdyne has solved the main problem, the precise control with nerve signals.' They appear to be investigating the problem (and not making a lot of headway) - but I couldn't find anything reliable looking to actually back up the statement that they have solved it

 

[rust]

... while the doctor and the university are legitimate, it doesn't mean anything in terms of the reality of his vision...

Yep, and I am well aware of the unnerving habit of Japanese robotics wi-
zards to proudly announce the taming of mighty elephants, which later on
usually turn out to look suspiciously like very small rodents. :lol:

Therefore I did not put this HAL Exosuit onto my list of credible technolo-
gies which I can use for my settings until February this year, when the
usually very no-nonsense Danes decided to invest 2.1 mio. dkr in the pro-
ject and to actually test the suit. For me this was the first hard evidence
that there must be more than hot air, although most probably still less
than the scientist originally had claimed.

 

[DFW]

I too a very close look at the "specs". 1) Ponderously slow. 2) range of motion isn't ANYWHERE close to the requirements needed for movement on a battlefield. 3) WAY underpowered. 4) Adding armour sufficient to make it worthwhile would render it almost immobile. 5) Power duration.

If I could actually get more detailed specs the list would grow immensely.

 

[rust]

1) Ponderously slow. 2) range of motion isn't ANYWHERE close to the requirements needed for movement on a battlefield. 3) WAY underpowered. 4) Adding armour sufficient to make it worthwhile would render it almost immobile. 5) Power duration.

Your list could just as well describe a "main battle tank" prototype of 1916.
:wink:

So, give the technology a couple more years, and on the next technology
level things may look a lot more interesting and useful.

 

[DFW]

So, give the technology a couple more years, and on the next technology level things may look a lot more interesting and useful.

The main inhibitor (power source) won't be solved in a couple of years. Look at closer to 50-100 years for the necessary increase in energy density required in that small of a package.

But, I still like the suit. Pretty innovative.

 

[BP]

... unnerving habit of Japanese robotics wizards to proudly announce the taming of mighty elephants, which later on usually turn out to look suspiciously like very small rodents. :lol:

:lol: (Darn, now I have to clean another keyboard!)

...Therefore I did not put this HAL Exosuit onto my list of credible technologies which I can use for my settings until February this year, when the usually very no-nonsense Danes decided to invest 2.1 mio. dkr in the pro-ject and to actually test the suit. For me this was the first hard evidence that there must be more than hot air, although most probably still less than the scientist originally had claimed.

Oh - I think this is a very fine area of research - and an excellent application of technology (especially given the extremely spotty quality post-op rehabilitation and geriatric care I've seen here in the U.S.), however, I didn't find anything but that site to collaborate this - and it was very vague as to what (and whom) was actually being funded.

BTW: The experience I referred to above was funded by 'no-nonsense' U.S. Government 'types'

Please note, this was but one experience with a 'scientist' - I've worked with dozens (30+), and the rest were all very legitimate, though notably unlike that fellow, none made claims of any sort of 'invention', yet they were actually responsible for quite inventive applied and practical uses of (often fringe) technologies.

 

[rust]

Look at closer to 50-100 years for the necessary increase in energy density required in that small of a package.

True, but as a powered armour suit it would probably need some life sup-
port system anyway, so I would imagine it to come with a backpack that
could also include a more powerful energy source.

 

[BP]

With a 'strength' augmented suit, suspect fuel cells could provide plenty of power (ignoring a traditional combustion engine ) in a 'frame integrated'/backpack style arrangement - though one wouldn't want that kind of IR signature in a battlefield setting...

 

[DFW]

Look at closer to 50-100 years for the necessary increase in energy density required in that small of a package.

True, but as a powered armour suit it would probably need some life sup-
port system anyway, so I would imagine it to come with a backpack that
could also include a more powerful energy source.

That would be the logical place to put it. I used to design power systems (solar and what not, in my youth) and still keep up with the subject somewhat. Miniaturization of power storage is a problem. A pack pack sized system that would supply enough kw/h is not on the horizon.

 

[phavoc]

There is a team at a university in the Dallas area that has been working with carbon fiber nanotubes to store electricity on a grant from the government.

Basically what they have done in the lab is created a vest-like device that you can charge with electricity, and then run your electronics off of it. Since it's carbon nanotubes, in theory they could adapt the design to be the armor itself, and then your suit not only protects you, it is it's own power source as well.

I thought it was a novel idea. Getting batteries in the field for your radio, night vision goggles, and umpteen other devices was a pain at times when I was in the service. It would have been so nice to just plug up my vest and charge it and not have to worry about things.

 

[DFW]

EEStor has something ever more revolutionary than the nanotube vest. I read their patent apps and it looks possible.