The Thunderbolt

[Target]

I was hijacking a thread about the T-Bolt so decided to make a new one.
I find the T-bolt a little much especially when comparing to the Rutarian ( maybe EA envy coming through here.)
The T-Bolt ranks in out 23 ( not included the Whitestar cause it costs a skirmish pt )
Highest damage possible 5th = with Frazi, Rutarian, Shadow
Higest Hull 2nd = with Vorlon, Sky Snake
Best Dodge 1st= with most except the ones that have beat it the previous catergories (damage & hull)
Speed 10th slowest ( rated it higher than other speed 10 fighters cause of afterburners)
Dogfight 8th = (rated the Tzymm higher cause of +1 CQ) Flyer, Gorith

from this it's argurably the best fighter ( Nial might be better but can't get enough of them )
It can swap out the Star Furies with no cost, maybe it needs toned down to
Hull 4, Drop a missle AD, give precise (keeps in tone with missles) or raise dodge back 3+ like the old days. Prefer the 1st option since it is the Starfury replacement or pay extra pts for them like the Rutarian.
For the Rutarian i'd would twinlink the weak weapons.

The reason people feel the need for Anti Fighter weapons is the T-Bolt, the rest have either low enough hull or bad enough dodge that normal weapons can shoot them out of the sky.

 

[animus]

I agree. I play EA and I think they're broken. There is no downside to them at all. I think their dogfight is alright, but they should be hull 4 and dodge 3+ (at least).

 

[sidewinder]

I like em how they are, gives the EA something to brag about to the other races.

 

[LaranosTZ]

Their high hull is fine, they are a very tough ship, but they need a reduced dodge. 3+ Would be fine.

 

[CZuschlag]

Sidewinder:

I don't know -- the new Command Omega with its 8-die beam system gets my attention, and the Hyperion, as changed by Armageddon, is downright nasty. The Hermes used to be able to claim to be the best Patrol-level combat craft available (the Pak'ma'ra Sunhawk probably gets this claim now). I think Third Age is already pretty valid.

With one exception: the Poseidon.

Ah yes -- the king of the carriers would be well, more like what the king of the carriers should be, something you never take. But, that's a carrier problem in general. That's more a problem with what the CVEs, CVs, and CVAs and are, than what they should be. Separate debate.

 

[Locutus9956]

I would say T-Bolts are FAR from broken at the moment though I personally would agree with putting them back to 3+ dodge. Hull 5 and firepower are fine where they are though.

 

[Alexb83]

Personally I think they're a bit broken - but then I play Vorlons and I dont like the fact that a fleet has an option of putting out swarms of 2+ dodge, hull 5 fighters with 4 inch range unlimited use missiles, whilst I have no AF weapons to shoot back at them with (aside from my own fighters which have serious problems moving around the table without exploding when sneezed at).

Perhaps make their missiles one shot! weapons with an extra AD - unless the EA have some super special missile manufacturing systems built into the hardpoints of their fighters? Or reduce their missile AD to represent ammo limitations and the pilots conserving their shots.

 

[H]

**ducks for cover as someone asks for an EA downgrade**

 

[Tank]

All you guys must have a serious bee in your bonnet, its always EA is to good this, EA is broken that, EA is so unfair, Whats the point playing against EA they have superior [insert choice here], how come the EA get[insert obviously broken aspect/ability/weapon here] when they got whupped.

steps back, puts blindfold on, smokes last cigarette and makes peace with God (obviously a vorlon) :lol:

 

[Locutus9956]

Now dont be silly, the EA have there little issues but theyre hardly the steamrolling behemoth that need nerfing compared to some fleets

And lets not forget the Saggitarius which I STILL think is pushing it a bit in terms of firepower. The Starfury is fine as it is I think now but as noted the T-bolt could indeed go back to a 3+ dodge.

As for Vorlon antifighter abilities.... I take it you havent read armageddon then? Every vorlon ship has a FANTASTIC antifighter weapon, sure TBolts can shoot from out of this range but if they do so theyre cutting their firepower in half and Vorlons are so tough they can just laugh it off. In all honestey if any fleet in ACTA is broken I would say its the Vorlons (theyre just a little bit TOO tough imho (personally I dont have a big problem with that, I think Vorlons SHOULD be broken to be 'Vorloney' but if you want them to be a frair tournament or campaign race they need toning down ever so slightly.

But I digress, the T-Bolt is very good. Certainly one of the better fighters in the game but frankly I dont think it should be nerfed, I think all other fighters should be imporved. Fighters at the moment arent enough of a threat to ships.

Lastly, as Ive said in the past, I think people are far to quick to call things broken, just because something is better than something another race has doesnt mean its broken. Sure the EA can field a better attack fighter than the Centauri for the same points, but then you dont hear me whining that the EA dont have a battle ship with 6AD of forward arc double damage sap beams......

 

[H]

this could be one big thread hijack as evey man and his dog now point out what is broken with every other fleet in the game.

for reference, I don't mind the Thunderbolts weapons load, although missiles should maybe be one shot, but dodge 2???

 

[Alexb83]

Thank you, yes I have read Armageddon. Vorlons go have a nice antifighter ability, but as you so kindly point out - Thunderbolts can completely ignore it with little loss to their effectiveness (so can Portafis too, now). And believe me, Vorlons may be tough but they cannot laugh off what may frequently be handfulls of AD per turn of AP weapons which they cannot respond to at all (an equal value of thunderbolts is way harder for any Vorlon transport to kill than say, a Hyperion - simply by virtue of the number of targets and their insane hull/dodge). 9 Tbolts vs. 1 Transport is 18AD of AP shots per turn. They may only average 18 damage per turn, but they can happily spend 4 turns dogging the same transport to wipe it off the board - and that's when they're bought separately (i.e. no support).

EA suffer from much the same syndrome as Space Marines; they're the best seller, so they must get better toys. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In terms of overall game balance, they may not do much better than anyone else, but certain things like the sagittarius, beams on early years hyperions, infinite range scouts, free swapouts for Thunderbolts for TA and Crusade fleets - shouldn't they have rung alarm bells if only for fluff reasons in many cases?

 

[Alexb83]

this could be one big thread hijack as evey man and his dog now point out what is broken with every other fleet in the game.

for reference, I don't mind the Thunderbolts weapons load, although missiles should maybe be one shot, but dodge 2???

Give them dodge 3+, hull 4 (either or both might do it), and one shot missile racks with 4-5 AD. Job done... as for those that argue this requires record keeping. You're already record keeping their afterburner usage...

 

[Da Boss]

Hull 5 but dodge 3+ seems fair

 

[pwrserge]

I can't see why a thunderbolt would be any toughter than a normal aurora. Give them a 4 hull and no one would care. Leave the dodge alone. Afterall, they are almost as agile as any other front line fighter.

I like the idea of one shot missile racks. It gives them a "strike fighter" feel. Perhaps include rules for rearming such weapons onboard fleet carriers.

SERGE

 

[captainsmirk]

Well based on the series there is nothing that suggests that the T-Bolt is any slower or worse a dogfighter than the basic Starfury, in fact evidence could be taken to suggest that it may even be better...

However that would just make it the default fighter choice (which of course you may argue it already is...) but it is often described as being a tougher fighter than the basic Starfury, note how much of the ordinary Starfury is taken up by the cockpit area, lots of fragile clear stuff...
On the T-Bolt, less visibility for the crew (possible reason for reduced dogfight capability) but definately more room for armour...


Nick

 

[Tank]

The AOG fluff had the T-Bolt as being perhaps the finest fighter produced by the younger races challenging even the Minbari Nial.

Besides to a degree the Aurora and the T-Bolt by the looks of them play somewhat different battlefield roles.

 

[Target]

I'd prefer them to go hull 4, keep the dodge. they are the replacement for the fury. Thinking the missle should go 1AD AP,Precise, reduces the firepower a little but same chance of criting as 2AD missle rack. Having them at +1 dogfight is good as they are atmo, can target emplacements ( no other fighter can do that). Personally think Crusade list should be all T-Bolts, we will just ignore that some older ships are yet to have them replaced.

 

[captainsmirk]

The basic Starfury however appears on board the Excalibur (admittedly in Crusade...) which is on a highly important mission, where it would be unlikely they would be issued with otherwise obsolete equipment, meaning that it is obviously still in service during the Crusade Era.


Nick

 

[Target]

It there because it looks cool