Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
If you're colour blind, your experience may differ in appreciating these frequencies.
The Great Rift - Travellers' Comments Welcomed!
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Don't overrate the power of language to shape minds
MATTHEW YGLESIAS
APR 04, 2022
Here’s something you may not know: pre-modern people couldn’t see the color blue.
One reason you probably didn’t know this is that it isn’t true. But that hasn’t stopped a lot of people over the years from claiming it’s true. Indeed, I recently learned via Noah Smith’s Twitter feed that there’s a whole cottage industry of people claiming that before the modern world, nobody could see blue.
“There’s Evidence Humans Didn’t Actually See Blue Until Modern Times” [Science Alert, 2018]
“No one could see the colour blue until modern times” [Business Insider, 2015]
“Why the Ancient Greeks couldn’t see blue” [ASAP Science, 2019]
“Why ancient civilizations couldn’t see the color blue” [Good, 2020]
“Could our ancestors see blue? Ancient people didn't perceive the colour because they didn't have a word for it, say scientists” [Daily Mail, 2015]
What’s going on here? Why are all these people writing articles claiming that ancient people couldn’t see blue?
It is true that lots of ancient languages didn’t have a word that refers to the exact part of the color spectrum that we call “blue” in English. And there is also some evidence that a person’s native language influences their perception of colors. But for some reason, large swathes of humanity are strongly predisposed to believe the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis that human thought is really controlled by language. It’s an idea you’ll find in “1984,” where the Party was going to make dissident thought impossible by forcing everyone to use Newspeak. It’s also one of the reasons we have such ferocious battles over whether to call people “illegal aliens” or “undocumented immigrants.”
www.slowboring.com
MATTHEW YGLESIAS
APR 04, 2022
Here’s something you may not know: pre-modern people couldn’t see the color blue.
One reason you probably didn’t know this is that it isn’t true. But that hasn’t stopped a lot of people over the years from claiming it’s true. Indeed, I recently learned via Noah Smith’s Twitter feed that there’s a whole cottage industry of people claiming that before the modern world, nobody could see blue.
“There’s Evidence Humans Didn’t Actually See Blue Until Modern Times” [Science Alert, 2018]
“No one could see the colour blue until modern times” [Business Insider, 2015]
“Why the Ancient Greeks couldn’t see blue” [ASAP Science, 2019]
“Why ancient civilizations couldn’t see the color blue” [Good, 2020]
“Could our ancestors see blue? Ancient people didn't perceive the colour because they didn't have a word for it, say scientists” [Daily Mail, 2015]
What’s going on here? Why are all these people writing articles claiming that ancient people couldn’t see blue?
It is true that lots of ancient languages didn’t have a word that refers to the exact part of the color spectrum that we call “blue” in English. And there is also some evidence that a person’s native language influences their perception of colors. But for some reason, large swathes of humanity are strongly predisposed to believe the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis that human thought is really controlled by language. It’s an idea you’ll find in “1984,” where the Party was going to make dissident thought impossible by forcing everyone to use Newspeak. It’s also one of the reasons we have such ferocious battles over whether to call people “illegal aliens” or “undocumented immigrants.”
The bizarre myth that Ancient Greeks couldn't see blue
Don't overrate the power of language to shape minds
www.slowboring.com
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
No, you will se them, you will just have a different subjective experience...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
And Isaac Newton invented a colour just so his observed spectrum would match his subjective witchcraft...Don't overrate the power of language to shape minds
MATTHEW YGLESIAS
APR 04, 2022
Here’s something you may not know: pre-modern people couldn’t see the color blue.
One reason you probably didn’t know this is that it isn’t true. But that hasn’t stopped a lot of people over the years from claiming it’s true. Indeed, I recently learned via Noah Smith’s Twitter feed that there’s a whole cottage industry of people claiming that before the modern world, nobody could see blue.
“There’s Evidence Humans Didn’t Actually See Blue Until Modern Times” [Science Alert, 2018]
“No one could see the colour blue until modern times” [Business Insider, 2015]
“Why the Ancient Greeks couldn’t see blue” [ASAP Science, 2019]
“Why ancient civilizations couldn’t see the color blue” [Good, 2020]
“Could our ancestors see blue? Ancient people didn't perceive the colour because they didn't have a word for it, say scientists” [Daily Mail, 2015]
What’s going on here? Why are all these people writing articles claiming that ancient people couldn’t see blue?
It is true that lots of ancient languages didn’t have a word that refers to the exact part of the color spectrum that we call “blue” in English. And there is also some evidence that a person’s native language influences their perception of colors. But for some reason, large swathes of humanity are strongly predisposed to believe the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis that human thought is really controlled by language. It’s an idea you’ll find in “1984,” where the Party was going to make dissident thought impossible by forcing everyone to use Newspeak. It’s also one of the reasons we have such ferocious battles over whether to call people “illegal aliens” or “undocumented immigrants.”
The bizarre myth that Ancient Greeks couldn't see blue
Don't overrate the power of language to shape minds
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Which is what I stated in post #44
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Taxonomy is flawed, but it does objectively classify. It has look up tables, flow charts and the like. It is not subjective.
How do you classify a crab you find on the beach? Look at it and say to yourself it has about eight legs so it must be some sort of spider? That is subjective.
Taking a photo of the crab and then comparing it with the various data points in lots of books and databases is objective.
How do you classify a crab you find on the beach? Look at it and say to yourself it has about eight legs so it must be some sort of spider? That is subjective.
Taking a photo of the crab and then comparing it with the various data points in lots of books and databases is objective.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
There IS no battle. There are sane people telling the truth, and there are liars saying people are not illegal. The mentally ill puppets of globalist totalitarians are fewer in number, but very loud, and annoying. Especially when they are in power and in a country that can arrest you for tame, sane and truthful, but disagreeable, social media posts.
Anstett
Emperor Mongoose
It is a battle of convincing people there is a difference and why when describing things.
Using a different taxonomy example:
1 - Homeless - a person without a home
2 - A person experiencing homelessness - a person who temporarily does not have a home
3 - Unhoused - A person who does not have a home to live in
New laws in Florida ban public camping and "sleeping in the open" i.e. sleeping on sidewalks etc. The law describes #2.
If you do not have a home, but you have a vehicle to sleep in (by law two very different things) you are in category #1 you are not subject to the law. If you do not have a home somewhere else other than Florida and are staying in Florida in a hotel you are in category #3 and not subject to the law.
Current speculation (the law went into effect in July and enforcement starts in January) is that if you are a renter and your landlord wants to evict you they can simply say you are in category #2 and have you arrested. There is no legal definition yet of when you go from #1 or #3 into category #2 and are subject to the law. Because enforcement has not started yet.
City and County Governments are the ones tasked with enforcing the law and applying the appropriate measures to prevent that person from breaking the law again. Which is expected to be jail time. Thus moving them into category #3 and now not subject to the law.
Definitions matter and are both objective and subjective in how they are applied.
Using a different taxonomy example:
1 - Homeless - a person without a home
2 - A person experiencing homelessness - a person who temporarily does not have a home
3 - Unhoused - A person who does not have a home to live in
New laws in Florida ban public camping and "sleeping in the open" i.e. sleeping on sidewalks etc. The law describes #2.
If you do not have a home, but you have a vehicle to sleep in (by law two very different things) you are in category #1 you are not subject to the law. If you do not have a home somewhere else other than Florida and are staying in Florida in a hotel you are in category #3 and not subject to the law.
Current speculation (the law went into effect in July and enforcement starts in January) is that if you are a renter and your landlord wants to evict you they can simply say you are in category #2 and have you arrested. There is no legal definition yet of when you go from #1 or #3 into category #2 and are subject to the law. Because enforcement has not started yet.
City and County Governments are the ones tasked with enforcing the law and applying the appropriate measures to prevent that person from breaking the law again. Which is expected to be jail time. Thus moving them into category #3 and now not subject to the law.
Definitions matter and are both objective and subjective in how they are applied.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Words have associations and connotations.
In terms of colours, blue could be described as Prussian, azure, cobalt, navy.
As long as you identify and understand the nuances, you're less likely to be manipulated.
In terms of colours, blue could be described as Prussian, azure, cobalt, navy.
As long as you identify and understand the nuances, you're less likely to be manipulated.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
But if I am moving away from you at 0.95c . . .
(Yes I know it is still objective - but my perception would be different).
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It is, but I can objectively calculate the wavelength change...
or at least Copilot can because I am too lazy
"traveling away from a source of blue light (475 nm) at 0.95c, the wavelength would be redshifted to approximately 2,967 nm. This places the light well into the infrared spectrum, making it invisible to the human eye"
or at least Copilot can because I am too lazy
"traveling away from a source of blue light (475 nm) at 0.95c, the wavelength would be redshifted to approximately 2,967 nm. This places the light well into the infrared spectrum, making it invisible to the human eye"
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
While the science-side of my brain wants rule harmonization, the practical referee/GM part knows that the WBH level of detail isn't for everyone. Sadly.
So, where options are going to win out, it would be nice if there were referee callouts explaining why one subsystem is used over another and perhaps provide high-level guidance of how and why alternative options would produce different results.
Along those lines, but deserving of broader application would be "behind the screen"-type referee/GM sections. Traveller is such an amazing rpg, but the genre is so broad "behind the screen" referee/GM guidance is more necessary and beneficial than your typical rpg. To provide an additional example in-genre (science fiction), the Mothership RPG does this to great effect in both rulebooks and adventures. Since I've been collecting Traveller material, I've seen more of this from Mongoose as well, and it's welcome info.
EccentRick
Banded Mongoose
Complete harmonization may not be wholly practical, but if the options are in a different key they become a point of confusion and frustration when trying to expand/adapt outside of that particular publication. It seems around here the classic reference would be working with starship construction rules in the Core rulebook and the High Guard.
If the World Builders Handbook is the Great Compilation (for now), and the Core rulebook is sketching a basic background for Travellers as they Do Something Else, I'd hope something like the Great Rift or other offerings alongside it would fall in-between - an executive summary of sections from the WBH of sorts. Truncated or somewhat simplified for MOARN reasons but pointing to how they feed into the WBH continuation/expansion if desired.
EccentRick
Banded Mongoose
The Rift has lots of 'empty space' and demands paying attention to astrogation and its hazards.
Personally, I think this starts with Detection / Distant Sensors; Where is my next refueling going to happen? Can I get enough long distance information to identify my fueling stops and plan a route? If I misjump, how to I get a positional check to find out where I am? Depending on my desperation, can I probe an 'empty' hex enough to find an alternative and jump to it? <Nod to the DSMS arguments>. Probably needs some level of hand-holding through detection points, the survey index, and the differences between them.
It seems a prudent crew should consider performing the equivalent of Class I and ad-hoc Class II surveys even on non-exploration trips, from a combination of thoughtful navigation and jump planning, hedge against trouble, and busywork in a sparse region. While anything more could be an ADVENTURE, some capacity to abstract up to that point would be helpful. I'd think the quick survey guide might do a lot of the lifting.
Jumpspace Shoals, Reefs, Deeps, (Trenches), various phenomena and jump shadows.
So, after discussing and thinking with friends, we couldn’t think of anything other than what I had already said, and what others had said such as more advice on how to run a campaign in the region.
