The effects of a failed landing roll

[middenface]

If this crash is at a starport...

If you survive the crash, theres the ship repair bill, medical bills and if you hit part of the starport do they charge you too?

Friend of mine flipped his car up on Snake Pass (nasty windy country road in the UK) in the crash he demolished a drystone wall, which the national trust* charged him for the repair off.. (He was ok btw)

'Oi you bust my Starport...!'

Worse too if you prang another ship on landing..!


*Or the it was the Farmers wall...

 

[rust]

If you survive the crash, theres the ship repair bill, medical bills and if you hit part of the starport do they charge you too?

Thank you for an interesting idea.

Ship damages colony's property (starport) on a fumbled landing, captain
is unable to pay for the damage, ship is impounded - colony owns a star-
ship ... :twisted:

 

[BP]

So far, seen: damages (direct and indirect), loss of pilot's license and damage reparations with possibility of impoundment...

Might also add - fines (i.e. a ticket) and inquest (investigation and possible legal actions).

Certainly an 'opportunity' for a creative referee.

In the OPs specific case, as rust pointed out the Effect was a Marginal Failure (-1).

A character trying to land a ship can bring it down safely but the ship may never fly again.

Wow - a bit more brutal than I would inflict. Seems to indicate the author or editor of that section at least, feels a failed landing is normally a very bad thing...

Personally, I'd take that example of a Marginal Failure as a bad one - way over the top. :roll:

IMO, landings under normal situations would have no check - its just too routine and automated - it should be Easy (+4). Thus, with extra time DM (+2 for 10 to 60 minutes), only other negative DMs could make it necessary (unskilled, negative Dex DM, adverse weather, tumbling highport, etc.). And only Exceptional effect would result in a ship 'may never fly again'. Even then, death to all occupants might be extreme...

Given the odds in the task system - a Routine landing by a 'professional' Pilot-2 (pg 6) has an 8% chance of crashing. Given the thousands and thousands of landings going on at any one time in a large TU (like the 3I) this would be an intolerably high failure rate.

 

[rust]

Given the odds in the task system - a Routine landing by a 'professional' Pilot-2 (pg 6) has an 8% chance of crashing. Given the thousands and thousands of landings going on at any one time in a large TU (like the 3I) this would be an intolerably high failure rate.

Yes, I think a real crash should require one or more unusual conditions,
for example an unexperienced or wounded pilot and/or a damaged star-
ship and/or a wilderness landing in unknown terrain and/or extreme wea-
ther. A crash during a routine landing at a starport should be so rare that
it can ony happen as a "referee event", not as the result of a die roll.

 

[BP]

For anyone who wants to know the TL7 auto landing system for something MUCH more difficult than a starship landing...

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/94/941018Arc4088.html

Thanks for the link.

• After exhaustive testing and development in a small Piper Dakota, the system was tested in a United Airlines Boeing 737-300. The system allowed the plane to make 110 successful automatic landings out of 111 attempts.

Oops - and the Marketing Types parrot - 100% success rate!

Still, that is better than MGT's routine landing by a professional pilot!

• Here¹s how the system works: Two flat antennas, each the size of a pack of cards, are fitted to the top and belly of the plane. The first receives position data from satellites in the sky; the second picks up signals from two pseudo-satellites, or pseudolites, credit-card-sized transmitters that beam GPS data from the ground. These are placed on the approach to a runway. Their signals reach only about 1000 feet in the air, so they do not interfere with high- flying planes that use satellite navigation (see illustration).

So four potential points of equipment failure. :shock:

Sounds... great. (Article goes on about limited costs and availability to third world countries - uh, a terrorist's wet dream?)

One could possibly make use of the above in MGT, but the comment bellow is just a RW observation:

• The system, which is designed to allow autopilot landings in even the worst weather conditions, employs a military satellite navigation system ...

GPS is based on military satellites, but the services currently (?) available to civilians involve only a single 'signal' (for processing) which makes it less accurate and more susceptible to weather IIRC. The article seems to imply that there may be economic/political reasons for this 'research'. [Note: Various militaries have been 'capable' of precision automated mission 'completion' and landing for quite some time. ] (from pnt.gov):

• GPS offers two services -- the Precise Positioning Service (PPS) for U.S. and Allied military users, and the Standard Positioning Service (SPS) for worldwide civilian users. PPS is a more robust form of GPS that is encrypted and jam-resistant. It employs two signals to reduce radio transmission errors caused by the atmosphere, thus improving accuracy.

 

[rust]

... the second picks up signals from two pseudo-satellites, or pseudolites, credit-card-sized transmitters that beam GPS data from the ground. These are placed on the approach to a runway. Their signals reach only about 1000 feet in the air ...

I like this part. Disable the "pseudolites" on the runway approach, replace
their signals with your own modified signals, and you can guide the craft
right to your preferred crash site ? :lol:

 

[DFW]

Still, that is better than MGT's routine landing by a professional pilot!

Yes, and this system would be unbelievably primitive and unreliable compared to a TL 10+ solution.

MGT's system (landing task) has star ports across the Imperium being damaged/destroyed on a daily basis... :lol:

 

[rust]

MGT's system (landing task) has star ports across the Imperium being damaged/destroyed on a daily basis... :lol:

Well, as a very rough estimate it would only be about 9,000 starships with
an approximate value of 270,000,000,000 Credits per day, nothing to get
concerned about ... :twisted:

 

[DFW]

MGT's system (landing task) has star ports across the Imperium being damaged/destroyed on a daily basis... :lol:

Well, as a very rough estimate it would only be about 9,000 starships with
an approximate value of 270,000,000,000 Credits per day, nothing to get
concerned about ... :twisted:

I think the trade goods tables should be modified to reflect the movement of massive amounts of ship & star port repair parts that are in high demand.

 

[BP]

Yes - and don't forget to account for the 1 in 10 or so that crash delivering such goods... :lol:

 

[DFW]

Yes - and don't forget to account for the 1 in 10 or so that crash delivering such goods... :lol:

On site star port trauma hospitals. The LARGEST industry in the 3I...

And, I thought the "gliding brick" rule in MGT was the most ridiculous one!

 

[BP]

...
And, I thought the "gliding brick" rule in MGT was the most ridiculous one!

TL-7 Construction grade, or TL-12 Aerogel in a Dense atmo?

Yep, its a game. I find myself 'tweaking' lots of game mechanics... but then, I also end up 'tweaking' my own later!

Having been CT exclusive all these years, I found MGTs skill check approach refreshing. Though, it has caused me to think in even more levels of detail. Yesterday ran across some info on T5's take, with additional dice for difficulties. Can't say it sounds like a good method - but it seems to be addressing some of the same issues I have been trying to.

In the end, I still fall back on Referee judgment and focus on roleplay vs. game mechanics.

 

[rust]

Well, at least we have now an explanation why the Third Imperium is so
static and neither the Imperium nor its member worlds show any sign of
a real population increase or technology development ... :lol:

 

[BP]

Ah... a 'smashing' display of logic there! :lol:

 

[CosmicGamer]

In the OPs specific case, as rust pointed out the Effect was a Marginal Failure (-1).

The example was with a roll of 2. I sometimes treat a roll of 2 or 12 before DM's a little differently.

 

[BP]

...The example was with a roll of 2. I sometimes treat a roll of 2 or 12 before DM's a little differently.

Indeed, a quite useful mechanic when the PCs (Munchkins) are DM heavy :lol:

(IIRC, there is someplace in MGT rules that has a natural roll rule...)

 

[far-trader]

MGT's system (landing task) has star ports across the Imperium being damaged/destroyed on a daily basis... :lol:

:lol:

Yep

This discussion reminds me of an old game rule (I don't recall the game) where the task for refueling aircraft would result in something like 1 in 12 aircraft being refueled exploding in a spark ignited avgas vapour mishap. Or some such foolishness...

...the obvious implication in both cases seems to be that the rule and roll do not and are not meant to be a representation of reality but a very limited PC focused subset of reality. Probably only used in rare circumstances. Intended to create tension for the PCs in limited usage. The alternative suggestions in previous posts above are excellent.

 

[iainjcoleman]

(IIRC, there is someplace in MGT rules that has a natural roll rule...)

Not in the task system. The only places where natural rolls are mentioned in the main rulebook are in chargen (natural 2 always fails the survival roll, natural 12 for advancement compels the character to stay in the career) and in the "skipping out on debts" section (natural 12 means the characters are automatically found).

I don't like having automatic failure generally on a natural 2. It means every skill check has a roughly 3% chance of failure regardless of training, experience and conditions, which is unrealistically high.

 

[rust]

I don't like having automatic failure generally on a natural 2. It means every skill check has a roughly 3% chance of failure regardless of training, experience and conditions, which is unrealistically high.

Yep, it can lead to the kind of game where someone breaks his neck be-
cause he fumbled tying his shoelaces.

 

[BP]

...The only places where natural rolls are mentioned in the main rulebook are in chargen (natural 2 always fails the survival roll, natural 12 for advancement compels the character to stay in the career) and in the "skipping out on debts" section (natural 12 means the characters are automatically found).

Knew I saw it someplace...

...I don't like having automatic failure generally on a natural 2. It means every skill check has a roughly 3% chance of failure regardless of training, experience and conditions, which is unrealistically high.

Yep - my sentiments exactly.

I'm less dis-inclined to 12 as an automatic success - but I've used neither myself (and probably won't).

Actually, tend to adjust the challenges of the game to the DMs of the PCs.