Term Explanations

[Reaverman]

but the rules could be changed to represent ships in hyperspace, after all JPs are all the same so it doesnt matter which one opens it and your opponent doesnt have to know.

So you are saying that the Turn sequence is going to be non-linear?

why would it be non linear? you have 3 ships in hyperspace with JPs. now you name which ship opens the JP. why would it change things if you say a ship opens a JP from hyperspace. still nominating a ship, just not named one. so you could nominate all 3 in turn without naming them.

Becuase that could be open to abuse, especially when the said ship, might be able to perform other functions. The reason you nominate a ship, is all part of playing fairly. What you going to suggest next, small screens for Minbari ships. So that no one knows what they are facing, until they pass stealth checks?

 

[katadder]

why is it open to abuse? in hyperspace you can perform one action - open a jump point. this is not abusable in any way whatsoever. doesnt matter if a torotha opens it or a sharlin opens it, the JP is the same.
it is only for hyperspace that i am talking about this and a theres only one thing you can do there and its the same for all ships that have the same types of jump engine i cannot see how you can abuse it.
try actually thinking about it instead of riduculing it, if you can tell me of a way this can be abused i will agree with you.

you still nominate a ship in hyperspace. if you have 3 ships with JPs you can only do this 3 times. you just dont say which ship you are nominating.
you are the one who is going over the top with the minbari thing which is plain stupid.

 

[Ripple]

I guess if you record each ship's identity and which jump point it is associated with on a piece of paper that stays in plain view you could not easily cheat. But hidden information in a game designed to be fast and simple does lead to some tense situations. Star fleet battles had this situation with T-bombs...bad enough that they basically pulled them from tourney play.

As to the other actions part of those chatting above, if you have a torotha holding the point open a sharlin can come through with an SA active. But only if you got the sequence right on who opened the point at the correct place, etc. Because the information on who opened what is hidden, their is the temptation for folks to get convenient on which ship opened which point to optimize the ships entry. And yes we can all say don't play with people who do that...but, there is tourney, area's with few players, folks who are your buddies for reasons other than their dedication to fair play, your boss who likes to win (okay, just let him) etc.

Ripple

 

[katadder]

see thats the idea. you dont have to say which ship opens which JP as long as something with jump engines comes through each point.
all I am saying is that a ship should not open a jump point then close it down and come through someone elses. but burger was against this as it takes away supposed tactical play, which is actually just as cheesy as many other things mentioned here. I dont mind decoys as long as its ships.
the idea here is that you open jump points then bring whichever ships out of whichever jump point so it leaves some tactical flexibility, but your opponent does know something will be coming out of the jump point in front of his ships, most likely a torotha (instead of the nothing as it stands at the moment which is pure cheese, you cant decoy without ships).

 

[Burger]

So if I have a Torotha and a Sharlin in hyperspace, I can open a JP to each side of the enemy. Whichever one the enemy goes towards, I can bring the Torotha out of that one, and the Sharlin out behind them?

You can't call my tactic cheesy, then suggest something even more cheesy and exploitable yourself!

 

[katadder]

yes you would have to do that. how is that more cheesy? at least your opponent would have a target, with your tactic they dont even get that.
personally i would still prefer you to have to nominate which ship opens which JP but this would at least leave some flexibility in there for you.

 

[Burger]

That is more cheesy because you can change which ship opened which JP, after you have seen which way your opponent is moving.

As Ripple said, writing down which ship opened which JP is not a good solution either.

 

[H]

That is more cheesy because you can change which ship opened which JP, after you have seen which way your opponent is moving.

As Ripple said, writing down which ship opened which JP is not a good solution either.

at the end of the day though, a cheat is a cheat! they will try to break, bend or ignore any rules that try to get them to play fair.

 

[Burger]

Cheesy is not cheating though, cheesy is working within the rules to do something that really shouldn't happen.

 

[H]

I was referring more to the point of the player changing which ship oppened which jump point.

 

[Reaverman]

Guy's come on, lets not Katadder think he is being tagged by a Reaver/Hiff/Burger combo. Let him make his point, I am sure there is one somewhere

 

[katadder]

there has been, it just seems you guys cant actually figure it out.
you dont need to write down which ship comes from which point, any ship can come from any point. the idea is that at least one ship comes from every jump point rather than opening one for the sake of it. its better than the current one, cos at the moment it doesnt matter who opens which JP either as you all come out the same one in the end. this way it means you cant open a JP just as a distraction, you have to use an actual ship as one which is a lot less cheesy. how many times do i have to say it?
would it make any differance whatsoever to your games if you didnt know which ship opened which JP at the moment? no cos you all come through the same one anyway. this way you just have to actually bring at least one ship through every JP you open.
if you dont have a clue what I am on about then may i suggest night classes to actually learn to read and interpret writing.

 

[Reaverman]

if you dont have a clue what I am on about then may i suggest night classes to actually learn to read and interpret writing.

Hey,

there is no need to get nasty! I'm sure if we have to go to those lessons, you should have to study; Punctuation, Grammar, and Spelling......just my 'Oppinion' mind you

 

[Valen is my name]

where's LBH when you need him

 

[phoenixhawk]

There was that time when Sheridan opened a jump point within the jump point of a jump gate with the White Star. Destroyed a Shadow ship, IIRC. Kinda the same thing. not sure if that would work in the game or not, but it was cool on TV.

Perfect example of a JP Bomb (not in the game admittedly, and the only time it appeared in the source material) is what the Black Star does to the Lexington's fleet in In the Beginning.


Nick

 

[H]

heyy! the only combo I am interested in is the number 9 with fried rice thank you very much. I got what KT was saying ages ago, I just think that you should specify which ship opens which in some way, otherwise the ships will always come out in the most advantageous manner, whereas you might not have planned it that way

 

[lastbesthope]

where's LBH when you need him

[Engage Moderator Mode]

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I AM HERE!!!!

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Everyone keep it civil please.

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LBH

 

[katadder]

if you dont have a clue what I am on about then may i suggest night classes to actually learn to read and interpret writing.

Hey,

there is no need to get nasty! I'm sure if we have to go to those lessons, you should have to study; Punctuation, Grammar, and Spelling......just my 'Oppinion' mind you

not getting nasty, and how i choose to punctuate things online is pretty much upto me. bit like your lack of the same. however you choose to completely ignore what people are saying then ask if they are going to make a point. how many times does someone have to repeat themselves to make a point? you just dont like reading things you dont agree with and just make up crap to suit yourself. but then that seems familiar as you do that alot in these forums when people suggest rules changes you dont like.

 

[lastbesthope]

[Serious Mod Mode]
Katadder, and everyone else, stop sniping at each other and return to the topic or I'll take actions.
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LBH

 

[Spike1382]

How about we just put together a list of JPB fixes, put up a poll and see what people like? The entire point of this topic was lost a looong time ago as LBH pointed out.