T5 Has Arrived!

[kristof65]

Discussion about playtesting, finished product, preliminary version et al aside, I have a serious question here that assumes the T5 CD is a playable product:

With all of the other available editions of Traveller available, why should someone buy into T5?

T5 was announced quite a while ago, IIRC, pretty much before the CT materials got re-released and became widely available again. The arrival of T5 on the scene means we now have a fourth currently available* edition of the rules - CT, GT, MgT and now T5. (Not sure of the status of T20).



*my definition of "currently available" means a player new to Traveller can readily purchase new books they need to play/GM a game.

 

[Sturn]

With all of the other available editions of Traveller available, why should someone buy into T5?

Well, I've purchased almost every single MGT Traveller product also, and the same could be said of MGT. Preferences on a rule system? I played Traveller since CT and own every system of Traveller, but have never been 100% satisfied with one system (which is probably impossible with any game system). [Edit: To me, CT, MGT, MT, T20, TNE, GrupsTrav are all readily available, "new" in digital or print, most in both formats. Even if you include only real, new books (not PDFs or the plethora of used books available), CT, MGT, T20, Gurps still qualify]

That being said, even if you don't buy completely into the T5 "system", there may be things in it you can cherry pick - the "Maker" systems come to mind, more detailed weapon systems, amongst other things, but due to all the NDA type discussions its hard and confusing whether I can go into details.

 

[EDG]

I would ask the same question as kristof65. To be honest I think most people are quite settled in what system they're using, and I don't see anything compelling in T5 to persuade people to use that instead. And while I realise that some people would just buy it because Marc's writing it, that's not an issue for some of us.

At best there are systems that one can pick out of T5 to use in other games - though right now it's moot because it's not a final product, so it's up in the air whether these systems actually work properly yet.

T5 was announced quite a while ago, IIRC, pretty much before the CT materials got re-released and became widely available again. The arrival of T5 on the scene means we now have a fourth currently available* edition of the rules - CT, GT, MgT and now T5. (Not sure of the status of T20).

It does somewhat fly in the face of "bringing everything under one banner". I've not heard of any plans for FFE to stop selling the CT CDroms, SJG's license is still ongoing until they choose not to renew it, Mongoose obviously is still available, T20 is theoretically available but at best I think we're only going to see one more product from them (maybe) before their license expires and that's it.

Avenger's 1248 license expired at the end of November, which tbh incenses me completely because they had to pull every single product off the virtual shelves when it expired, so now it has been lost forever to the Traveller community and given the nature of PDFs I can't really see them still hanging around on ebay or anything like the licensed products from the CT era. I think it's astoundingly shortsighted to rob people of these resources, especially given the quality of the material that Avenger released. Now Avenger are at least publishing new material under Mongoose, but I am saddened by the loss of 1248 - I can only hope it'll reappear one day under Mongoose.

And every other version of the game is still available on DTRPG.

So yeah, even when the licences expire, all that will be gone are Avenger, T20, and possibly SJG - and I can't really see a mass migration from Mongoose to T5. So we're still left with everything else, so how is T5 supposed to put everything under one roof again?

 

[captainjack23]

Do we need a private sticky thread just for EDG-Capt. Jack discussions?

YES!

Gee, I'd have entirely deleted the comments if I could, but blanking them out, plus an apology is the best I can do to stop the fight. Frankly, they were aimed at the discussion, not the person, but I apparently failed there. Mea Culpa. Thanks for the support.

Its been a freaking year of this , and it isn't getting any better, more rational or nicer. I'm starting to act like a reactive Jerk, and that's what I want to stop. It isn't who I am. And I'm not going to change anyone's deeply held beliefs on the matter.

Yeah, I've probably wasted money, which I can always get more of, on T5, which for me, was vastly entertaining. I'd rather not spend more time, which I can't get more of, on pissing contests about weather or not I should or should not have, and who or who is competent to write rules, or design playtests, and what that means about me as a person, just so that I can be pissed off at other pissed off people. Enjoy T5 or hate it, figure it out amongst yourselves. It's become apparent to me that it is too damned religious a discussion for a world (or a life) with real problems or just a sense of perspective.

Me, I'll be over there in the other threads answering questions about TO&E, designing ships, oohing and ahhing about new rules and suppliments and rules editions, and speculating about storyline trivia. In short, being a starry-eyed fanboy. Its what I do best 'round here. Its fun ! And, a hobby that pisses one off more than a root canal isn't hobby, it's an exercise in masochism.

Leaving EDG's posts and opinions alone is a new Years goal for me. I can't believe the amount of text and time that has been wasted on this notational relationship, and I really, really want to devote that to actual creative, or at least, entertaining projects. Feel fee to remind me if I slip. I can only hope the feeling, and the solution, is mutual.

Gypsycomets point about this forums evolution is well worth reading. And I'd rather not continue to be part of the problem that he describes.

 

[EDG]

Leaving EDG's posts and opinions alone is a new Years goal for me. I can't believe the amount of text and time that has been wasted on this notational relationship, and I really, really want to devote that to actual creative, or at least, entertaining projects. Feel fee to remind me if I slip. I can only hope the feeling, and the solution, is mutual.

I think everyone would appreciate that, not just me. Nobody has been more tired of the constant barrage of attacks than me - all I've ever wanted to do here is to talk about Traveller, and it gets really tiresome when a minority people keep attacking me all the time because they have something personal against me or don't like my opinions.

I don't see any reason to leave your points alone though and I don't see any reason for you to ignore me either, because if people make valid points worth commenting on then who they are doesn't and shouldn't be relevant. Where things have repeatedly gotten stupid is when people start derailing the thread to talk about those doing the talking - even if one loathes the person making the point, it's still possible to discuss the subject civilly and there's no reason whatsoever to make it personal or to throw in snarky commentary, and I'm not sure why people can't seem to stay on track. If everyone just stops and thinks before they post and excise anything that could be construed as personal commentary, things would be a whole lot more civilised around here.

Everyone should know what the boundaries are here by now, so how about we all make an effort not to cross them in future? That's not too much to ask is it?

 

[Ishmael]

I don't feel that I've crossed any boundaries. I've asked what I feel are valid questions along with hints/reasons as to why I asked them. I've not asked for details from any playtest or gamer review.
Thus far, no one has felt it necessary to respond to them, or perhaps the 'non-disclosure' gentleman's agreement prevents answers from coming....

now that the noise has quieted down...

Is the task system good? ( quick, easy, plausible results, "transparent" to the story and hardened against blatant gaming/breakpoint manipulation )
Is it a task_system that people in the playtest feel they would choose to use in actual games?
Is the task system usable with layers of added 'chrome' as well as when stripped bare.
Are any task_system weaknesses that are found in playtest addressed in a reasonable manner?

I am not asking for details, but just the opinions of people who have pre-ordered. Yes or No will do.
Will the task system base design be one that is preferred in use during actual game-play and will it be compatible with MGT's?

If these questions cannot be answered, then why discuss T5 at all until it is released to the general public without any restrictions?

 

[Dracous]

Just a quick question for those of you who may know the answer.

I understand that the CD is s preiminary version of the rules. If I buy the CD, will I be getting a final version of the rules at a later stage, without having to put any more money down?

The answer to this quesiton will influence my descision on purchasing a T5 CD.

 

[Sturn]

I understand that the CD is s preiminary version of the rules. If I buy the CD, will I be getting a final version of the rules at a later stage, without having to put any more money down?

I had always assumed so, but now that you asked I'm not sure. I don't recall exactly what the text at FFE said long ago when I pre-ordered. The text now (just visited) says you are buying the T5 cd-rom if you pre-order. I could further assume that would mean you may get a second "final" version on cd-rom someday in addition to the "preliminary" version now? But no print version?

I think I just further muddied the waters for you, sorry.

 

[GamerDude]

Let's just all get back to the thread topic.

Please remember you said this, not just for this thread, but for all future threads you participate in.

YES! PLEASE

 

[GamerDude]

Do we need a private sticky thread just for EDG-Capt. Jack discussions?

No, we just need other people to stop making sarky comments about them. He's apologised, so this is done now - don't fire it back up again please. Let's just all get back to the thread topic.

Ok, here was the orginal topic:

Well I trudged out through the snow, which was fun since from Wed night (the 17th) through yesterday we've received over three feet of snow.

I'm glad I did because the Traveller 5 CDROM was in my mailbox! YEAH!

When you pop in the disk a web page starts up with a chapter listing and this intro:

This disk contains the preliminary Version 5.0 texts for Traveller 5 -- the 5th (and aspiring to be ultimate) edition of Traveller. The PDF files themselves are provided here in multiple versions: a massive 500+ page Master Text, some 30 chapters as individual files, and smaller component files within those chapters. The links on this page lead to the various files, which are also accessible directly.

I'll have more once I get through my first decent look-see.

In a Nutshell... I'm excited the T5 preliminary CD-ROM arrived. Who else got it and lets give our opinions (remember, we can't mention specific details).

Thank you.

 

[captainjack23]

Do we need a private sticky thread just for EDG-Capt. Jack discussions?

No, we just need other people to stop making sarky comments about them. He's apologised, so this is done now - don't fire it back up again please. Let's just all get back to the thread topic.

Ok, here was the orginal topic:

Well I trudged out through the snow, which was fun since from Wed night (the 17th) through yesterday we've received over three feet of snow.

I'm glad I did because the Traveller 5 CDROM was in my mailbox! YEAH!

When you pop in the disk a web page starts up with a chapter listing and this intro:

This disk contains the preliminary Version 5.0 texts for Traveller 5 -- the 5th (and aspiring to be ultimate) edition of Traveller. The PDF files themselves are provided here in multiple versions: a massive 500+ page Master Text, some 30 chapters as individual files, and smaller component files within those chapters. The links on this page lead to the various files, which are also accessible directly.

I'll have more once I get through my first decent look-see.

In a Nutshell... I'm excited the T5 preliminary CD-ROM arrived. Who else got it and lets give our opinions (remember, we can't mention specific details).

Thank you.

Me too. Tastes great, more filling.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Just a quick question for those of you who may know the answer.

I understand that the CD is s preiminary version of the rules. If I buy the CD, will I be getting a final version of the rules at a later stage, without having to put any more money down?

The answer to this quesiton will influence my descision on purchasing a T5 CD.

....Good question: the short answer is: I dunno. I will ask over on the official T5 board.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Iz haz aksed, waytin for anser. Kthxbai!

 

[Libris]

I am off work until the 2nd of January and thought that I'd have a closer look at this T5 stuff and despite my initial reactions to the dense and INHO overly complicated approach to some subjects I am quite getting in to it. The level of detail is exceptional. So far, my only real gripe is starship design but I am coming around to thinking that the rest of it isn't half bad. I still don't see why Marc released it on CD at the moment (perhaps there were legal reasons, real or imagined but hey ho...). I would be quite happy to see future updates as a download After all, I just copied the CD to my hard drive anyway.

Is it worth $35? Well it depends how you value your thrity five bucks. If you are a life long Traveller fan sophont then yes, it's well worth it. If you are down to buy T5 or pay the rent, then perhaps not (well, maybe).

 

[Jarec]

I have a quick question regarding MGT and T5.

Originally it was said by Mongoose that T5 would be a superset of MGT and that they would be compatible. Is this still the case?

Whilst I'm not looking for a complete detailed system and for the most part find MGT fine for my group there are times when I would like a more detailed system. Usually for background tasks like world creation.

So are the two systems compatible as originally claimed?

 

[Dave Chase]

I have a quick question regarding MGT and T5.

Originally it was said by Mongoose that T5 would be a superset of MGT and that they would be compatible. Is this still the case?

Whilst I'm not looking for a complete detailed system and for the most part find MGT fine for my group there are times when I would like a more detailed system. Usually for background tasks like world creation.

So are the two systems compatible as originally claimed?

No one is talking (answering) that question yet.

With out giving away details, I can say that currently, just like all other versions of Traveller, that there are parts that will fit right in and some will probably need tweeking abit. I say that because I as of yet don't own a MgT set yet. (got to earn more money for things like that.

Dave Chase

 

[Libris]

Well, I don't see it as giving away details but I'd say no. Each Traveller set that I have is similar in general principle and a person playing, say MegaTraveller, would be pretty much at home with Mongoose Traveller or T5 but I wouldn't say they are compatible.

It may well have been the original aim but I certainly don't see the rules link.

 

[AKAramis]

Well, I don't see it as giving away details but I'd say no. Each Traveller set that I have is similar in general principle and a person playing, say MegaTraveller, would be pretty much at home with Mongoose Traveller or T5 but I wouldn't say they are compatible.

It may well have been the original aim but I certainly don't see the rules link.

I suspect it may have been wishful thinking on Mongoose's part, since MWM has been fixated on the T4.x task system for years, and that requires T4/TNE levels of skill to work, thus also requiring more skills per term and/or far fewer skills available; MWM has shown an attachment to one skill per year as well.