Synthetics

[locarno24]

I recently purchased Traveller VF, but I do not intend to use the official "3rd Imperium" (I dislike 70's Aliens designed under LSD, lol). For my personal universe, I would like to create a new race, inspired by Call/Bishop in the Aliens movies : artificial beings, between robots and humans, maybe capable of feelings, who have freed themselves from their creators (sounds like Battlestar Galactica). How would you create them using the Traveller rules ? What supplement could help me ? (cybernetics, robot ?)

Depends how 'human' you want them to be. Bishop is a perfect example - other than an above-average DEX and END, he is effectively human. Yes, alright, white innards, but that doesn't really affect anything.

Personally, I distinguish the artificial intelligence of consciousness. For my purpose, my "synthetics" will be sentient. I still have to define what makes them different from humans. And if they have qualities, I have to think about their flaws.

Thoughts:

1) Essentially 'human plus' means STR, DEX, END, INT are all possibly notable (+1) or more.

2) EDU is dependent on upbringing, but you might rule that they receive certain 'hard-wired' skills at level 0 or more. Taking the Blade Runner example, combat units like Roy get Gun Combat/0 and Melee/0 whilst Pris gets Acrobatics/0 and Persuade/0.

3) Certain restraints and restrictions might also be hard-wired in. Obviously not enough to stop them freeing themselves, but you might, for example, put a restriction against directly causing the death of a human (which leaves a whole load of grey areas for such characters to exploit in indirectly doing so). Other prohibitions might be lying - which makes it all the more shocking when they meet the new version now able to do so.

4) Lastly - again thinking blade runner - ageing is likely to work differently. Starting age is likely to come down (no-one wants to spend eighteen years producing these things), whilst in-service life could be more, or less, than human as you see fit. Ageing crisis, when and indeed if it comes, is likely to be much more severe - designed organisms rarely degrade gracefully and might have a built-in kill clock, so apply a big DM to the aging crisis (especially since you'll have to wipe out above-average physical stats).

 

[Treebore]

For Trans-humanism I look at the RPG Eclipse Phase. Been playing it a lot in fact. What is possible with that technology has pretty much been mind blowing. It would definitely radically change any setting that doesn't take such tech into account. The Imperium would be pretty unrecognizable if such Tech were added in.

Yeah. Mind blowing stuff.

 

[rust]

Personally, I distinguish the artificial intelligence of consciousness. For my purpose, my "synthetics" will be sentient. I still have to define what makes them different from humans. And if they have qualities, I have to think about their flaws.

If your artificial intelligences are computer based, they will have an eidetic
memory and lack the ability to forget any information they have stored,
if they want to free memory space they will have to intentionally erase in-
formation they no longer consider useful. This could well lead to an "all or
nothing" memory, the AI either has all the information about an event or
person, and so on, or it has erased it and now has none of the information
left - no "fuzzy" memory.

Likewise, if your artificial intelligences are computer based, their average
thought processes will still be logical ones. They will understand that hu-
mans are able to think illogically and will probably be able to simulate this
to a certain degree, but at their core they will follow logic, and find it hard
to deal with other creatures' actions which seem to make no sense or to
be self-defeating - they will tend to look for a logical reason why people
are acting this way and design motives and perhaps even conspiracy the-
ories before they accept something as simply plain illogical and stupid.

Still following the "computer model", your artificial intelligences could start
with a high number of skills instead of having to learn them slowly, and
they may even be able to "switch skills" by replacing the software for a
mental skill with the software of another mental skill - from habitat engi-
neer to xenobiologist in less than a day. On the other hand, their total
number of skill levels may be fixed and depending on their "hardware",
with no way to add more skill levels than those they were originally de-
signed for.

And then their motives, still following the "computer model". Reproduction
could well be a technological process, without any fun connected with it -
"no sex" in their life, and therefore none of the usual sex related human
motives and activities. No attraction to another gender, no attempts to
show off to impress a potential partner, no jealousy and all that, and no
vulnerability to seduction.

Well, just some thoughts.

 

[alex_greene]

Personally, I distinguish the artificial intelligence of consciousness. For my purpose, my "synthetics" will be sentient. I still have to define what makes them different from humans. And if they have qualities, I have to think about their flaws.

If your artificial intelligences are computer based, they will have an eidetic
memory and lack the ability to forget any information they have stored,
if they want to free memory space they will have to intentionally erase in-
formation they no longer consider useful. This could well lead to an "all or
nothing" memory, the AI either has all the information about an event or
person, and so on, or it has erased it and now has none of the information
left - no "fuzzy" memory.

Likewise, if your artificial intelligences are computer based, their average
thought processes will still be logical ones. They will understand that hu-
mans are able to think illogically and will probably be able to simulate this
to a certain degree, but at their core they will follow logic, and find it hard
to deal with other creatures' actions which seem to make no sense or to
be self-defeating - they will tend to look for a logical reason why people
are acting this way and design motives and perhaps even conspiracy the-
ories before they accept something as simply plain illogical and stupid.

Still following the "computer model", your artificial intelligences could start
with a high number of skills instead of having to learn them slowly, and
they may even be able to "switch skills" by replacing the software for a
mental skill with the software of another mental skill - from habitat engi-
neer to xenobiologist in less than a day. On the other hand, their total
number of skill levels may be fixed and depending on their "hardware",
with no way to add more skill levels than those they were originally de-
signed for.

And then their motives, still following the "computer model". Reproduction
could well be a technological process, without any fun connected with it -
"no sex" in their life, and therefore none of the usual sex related human
motives and activities. No attraction to another gender, no attempts to
show off to impress a potential partner, no jealousy and all that, and no
vulnerability to seduction.

Well, just some thoughts.

Unless their brains were designed along neural lines, with a holographic model of processing somewhat like that of the human brain. In which case memory accumulates, and can get buried beneath layers of other memories, associations, synaptic cross-connections and experiences.

A learning synthetic could develop experiences at an incredible speed, quickly mastering many skills - yet, perhaps, having grave shortcomings in others. Zero-G and Athletics, Science, Computers, Sensors, Engineering, the combat skills, Stealth, Flyer ... your Syn has them nailed easily. Carouse, Deception, Diplomat and Persuade ... not so good. And Gambler? *shakes head*

The Syn could have a natural advantage over an organic mind: the ability to process information in the background at incredible speeds could mean that the Syn has the natural equivalent of J-o-T-3, and never suffers from an untrained penalty when attempting something new.

Just because a lifelike humanoid Syn doesn't have the same impulses as humans to do the Wild Thing, also, doesn't mean they may not be able to - think of Data and his predecessor, Gene Roddenberry's Questor from "The Questor Tapes." Think of "A for Andromeda" and even, if you can imagine an alien as a kind of an organic android, Sil from "Species."

Not to mention generations of sexy Japanese robot women and images of erotic androids going as far back as Duplicate Maria in Fritz Lang's Metropolis, the Bride in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and Galatea in the Greek myth of Pygmalion. They just wouldn't have as many hangups about it as organics.

Now reproducing their own kind, merging the kernel source code of two or more Syns and installing the new being inside a fresh Syn body ... now that's different.

 

[Infojunky]

If your artificial intelligences are computer based, they will have an eidetic
memory and lack the ability to forget any information they have stored,
if they want to free memory space they will have to intentionally erase in-
formation they no longer consider useful.

Well yes and no, or really that depends. Yes they have more conscious control about what gets archived. But I would bet a lot of day to day stuff gets flushed in the name of good house keeping. There is more choice but that isn't the same as a absolute. There also is the issue of a continuously growing registar of of location of memory. Just because it is recorded doesn't follow that it is easy to access. Just tossing out some engineering constraints, it is surprising how often they aren't objective considered on Traveller and Science Fiction lists.

This could well lead to an "all or
nothing" memory, the AI either has all the information about an event or
person, and so on, or it has erased it and now has none of the information
left - no "fuzzy" memory.

Now wouldn't that be nice?

Now I am going to argue the flip-side of my previous argument, what is all memories where stored relatively to the OS, where the Program and the Memory are inexorability linked? To flush the memory you flush functionality of the linked skill. Thus leading to a situation where said AI has to keep adding long term memory (Note right now they are playing with solid state memory that is both Bulk Storage and Ram).

Likewise, if your artificial intelligences are computer based, their average thought processes will still be logical ones.

Why? Logic is learned not inherent. You can state that all are "programed" from a logical base, but outside you can't assume. I for one believe that the 1st truly independent AI mind is going to be as a result of evolution. And evolution is not always logical. Not even linear in a lot of cases.

Though I do agree that a huge part of training AIs is going to include a solid base of logic.

I didn't point this out in the hardware discussion above, consider Quantum computing, as a basis for AI includes a lot of non-optimal working solutions. Consider this lens also.

Still following the "computer model", your artificial intelligences could start
with a high number of skills instead of having to learn them slowly, and
they may even be able to "switch skills" by replacing the software for a
mental skill with the software of another mental skill - from habitat engi-
neer to xenobiologist in less than a day.

This is more dependent on the memory model you are playing with than anything else. Which brings up a whole different question, how much of a skill is just specialized knowledge compared to general knowledge?

On the other hand, their total
number of skill levels may be fixed and depending on their "hardware",
with no way to add more skill levels than those they were originally de-
signed for.

And then their motives, still following the "computer model". Reproduction
could well be a technological process, without any fun connected with it -
"no sex" in their life, and therefore none of the usual sex related human
motives and activities. No attraction to another gender, no attempts to
show off to impress a potential partner, no jealousy and all that, and no
vulnerability to seduction.

Ok this part is just Game Mechanics which is better considered after the general operational model is decided on.

And Rust Thanks for being my intellectual stalking horse.

 

[rust]

Which brings up a whole different question, how much of a skill is just specialized knowledge compared to general knowledge?

As for academic or mental skills I would think that there is a common core
of general knowledge, mostly fundamental logic and scientific methodolo-
gy, and that each of the actual skills adds its own specialized knowledge
to this common core of general knowledge. In a (not very good) compari-
son, the common core is the operating system with the basic rules for pro-
cessing the information, while the actual skill adds the specialized informa-
tion to be processed.

Physical skills are probably different, at least for humans, because here
the biology of "muscle memory" and thelike is more important than theo-
retical knowledge or information, and the learning process has more to do
with a repetition of procedures than with a search for a conclusion, which
usually does not have to be repeated over and over again to obtain the
intended result.

 

[Nuclear Fridge Magnet]

"ISMM Model 7Fib.3 on-board computer with multiple input
stations and limited Al."

That was the first Traveller module I ever played in back in the 80s...

We got aboard the Kinunir, and began upsetting the GM by endlessly calling each other "Dave" and asking the AI to "open the pod bay doors, please". :twisted:

 

[Dave Chase]

"ISMM Model 7Fib.3 on-board computer with multiple input
stations and limited Al."

That was the first Traveller module I ever played in back in the 80s...

We got aboard the Kinunir, and began upsetting the GM by endlessly calling each other "Dave" and asking the AI to "open the pod bay doors, please". :twisted:

Now, that's funny.

Dave Chase

 

[Beastttt]

what about the computer in "the Moon is a harsh mistress"by Robert A. Heinlein

it was created by accident as more and more computers where linked to the main frame

Signal GK. Sentient silicon chips. AI does exist in the OTU, but it's a natural product of evolution.

That is, by definition, not AI. Unless you want to say we are AI too.

AI (Artificial Intelligence) requires that the Intelligence be created by an Intelligence (the Artificer - i.e. Humans) and hence it is an Artifact (nee Artificial).

The key point imo when talking AI is the boundary between AI and true Intelligence.

AI is by definition a simulation of intelligence. It may convince everyone, itself included, that it is truly intelligent, but it is not. It can only look up responses or trial-and-error answers. If it has a sufficiently advanced program and database it can trial-and-error simulated answers to achieve the best response, which may look very much like true intelligence. It still isn't though.

There needs to be that cognitive leap to insight, or whatever you want to call it, to be true intelligence. I'm not sure that is at all possible for AI. Sci-fi generally takes the view that it requires evolution, though with an advanced AI said evolution can be a matter of years, days, minutes or even seconds depending on the processing power applied.

One story iirc has science build an AI to end wars. They turn it on, the machine does several billions of calculations in a second and comes to the only logical conclusion and solution to end wars. And it immediately uses all the worlds weapons to exterminate mankind.

...what happened there? Got carried away Anyway, what was the question? Oh yeah...

For AI in Traveller, you have to make it up. And choose if it is AI (limited) or true intelligence (Sentient) as that may affect how they are treated under law (property or citizen).

For ALFs (Artificial Life Forms - generally not able to procreate though the definition of "life" is and always has been tough to nail down) you could use Robots to do metal men, or stretch you imagination and create synthetic biologicals ("Dr. Frankenstein I presume?"). Perhaps through cloning. Your ALFs may not even know they are artificial (ala "DADoES" aka "Blade Runner"). And again note the legal standing and just how "alive" they are.

Above all: Create, enjoy and have fun!

 

[DFW]

what about the computer in "the Moon is a harsh mistress"by Robert A. Heinlein

it was created by accident as more and more computers where linked to the main frame

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience...

 

[Burocrate]

what about the computer in "the Moon is a harsh mistress"by Robert A. Heinlein

it was created by accident as more and more computers where linked to the main frame

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience...

None that have been willing to be identified...um, never mind. The Computer is our Friend!

 

[AndrewW]

what about the computer in "the Moon is a harsh mistress"by Robert A. Heinlein

it was created by accident as more and more computers where linked to the main frame

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience...

None that have been willing to be identified...um, never mind. The Computer is our Friend!

Most had no idea that computer was sentient...

 

[IanBruntlett]

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience...

OTOH, running a "Moon is a harsh mistress" series of games would be fun

 

[GamerDude]

what about the computer in "the Moon is a harsh mistress"by Robert A. Heinlein

it was created by accident as more and more computers where linked to the main frame

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience...

AI must be programed. Expert Systems, actual attempts at creating an AI etc. Then as they begin to be interconnected these programs that learn and 'think' begin to get stronger and stronger smarter and smarter. Also the nature of the network, reliability of data transfer, speed etc. would have an effect.

No, network of Mac OS or Windows comps are ever going to reach "AI" status on their own, especially with today's Internet.

 

[DFW]

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience... AI must be programed. Expert Systems, actual attempts at creating an AI etc. Then as they begin to be interconnected these programs that learn and 'think' begin to get stronger and stronger smarter and smarter.

Really? I've never seen that scientific theory. Do you have a link for it? :wink:

 

[far-trader]

...AI must be programed.

I touched on this earlier, if I understand you correctly being in agreement

It's the definition of the "A" in AI. Artificial: Created by man. Not self-arising. Not evolved. Once (IF) an AI becomes something more than it's programming it is no longer AI. It is simply I (as in Intelligent, and at that point Sentient which is a better name. There is no true Sentient Artificial Intelligence. I suppose one could program Artificial Sentience, of a sort, but it's not really Sentience.

D'oh! I'm guessing now that DFW was asking about the second part of the statement. The bit about connectedness giving rise to Intelligence/Sentience

On that I agree it's not any science I'm aware of, beyond science-fiction, where it is a major trope (cliche even).

 

[GamerDude]

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience... AI must be programed. Expert Systems, actual attempts at creating an AI etc. Then as they begin to be interconnected these programs that learn and 'think' begin to get stronger and stronger smarter and smarter.

Really? I've never seen that scientific theory. Do you have a link for it? :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_AI

 

[Infojunky]

what about the computer in "the Moon is a harsh mistress"by Robert A. Heinlein

it was created by accident as more and more computers where linked to the main frame

Thousands of computers get linked today and, no AI/sentience...

How would you know?

 

[locarno24]

No, network of Mac OS or Windows comps are ever going to reach "AI" status on their own, especially with today's Internet.

Indeed. Skynet did in fact come into existance and try to cause Judgement Day on schedule, but due to Orange bandwidth is still waiting for the instructions to reach the missiles....

 

[DFW]

/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_AI

Now, THAT is funny.