Surprise Question

[Melkor]

P.45 of the MRQ rulebook states that a surprised character suffers a -10 penalty to his Strike Rank during the first Combat Round, and may only use Reactions against actions that occur after their own strike rank.

In the case of characters with multiple actions, does this mean that if a character whith 4 Combat Actions who has a Strike Rank total of 16 and surprises a character with a Strike Rank total of 10 would get to attack 4 times without the surprised character having a chance to use a reaction, or would this only apply to the first Combat Action, and each subsequent action would allow the surprised character a chance to use a reaction ?

The text says the effects of Surprise last the ENTIRE FIRST COMBAT ROUND...but that seems pretty darn harsh in the case of multiple Combat Actions, so I thought I would ask.

 

[atgxtg]

It is pretty harsh.Then again, most real world ambushes tend to be over before half of the surprised people know what is going on.

IMO, I think that after the first serotation of actions the character should be able to react, as the second and third (and fourth) action take place after the character's strike rank.

Otherwise the example in the book with the two broo doesn't make sense. The PC could block the second broo and the be "resurprised" by the first one on his second attack? Naw. I think it is just those who beat the SR of the surprised character get undefended attacks, then the character must be on the defensive for the rest of the round.

 

[Melkor]

Matt - would you mind chiming in here on this please ?

 

[Zotzz]

My reading of the rules came up with the same results as atgxtg. The second set of Combat Actions takes place after everyones strike rank for the first combat action.

The ambusher would have to use flurry to use all of thier attacks before the suprised play could react.

 

[atgxtg]

The ambusher would have to use flurry to use all of thier attacks before the suprised play could react.

Oooh, I didn't think of that! OUCH! That just made ambushes a lot nastier. It's worth the -20% to get uhndefednable attacks. OW! OW! OW!

 

[iamtim]

The text says the effects of Surprise last the ENTIRE FIRST COMBAT ROUND...but that seems pretty darn harsh in the case of multiple Combat Actions, so I thought I would ask.

I read it the same way you do; the Combat Round lasts until all characters get all of their Combat Actions. So, poor Mr. SR 10 would be at SR 0 for the entire round, and unable to react to any Combat Action with a SR greater than or equal to 0.

Ouch.

I think I might change that in Gatecrasher 2371. Make it only for the first Combat Actions in the round.

 

[atgxtg]

The text says the effects of Surprise last the ENTIRE FIRST COMBAT ROUND...but that seems pretty darn harsh in the case of multiple Combat Actions, so I thought I would ask.

I read it the same way you do; the Combat Round lasts until all characters get all of their Combat Actions. So, poor Mr. SR 10 would be at SR 0 for the entire round, and unable to react to any Combat Action with a SR greater than or equal to 0.

Ouch.

I think I might change that in Gatecrasher 2371. Make it only for the first Combat Actions in the round.

NO , it can't work that way because the example with the Broo, allow the character to act against a foe with a lower intitative. So if you are correct that means that the character can't block the first Broos 1st Attack, but can block the second Broos 1st attack, but then can't block the first broo's second attack!

It seems to me that once the charascter recoveres enough to start defending he can defend against anyone from that point on. At least untilhe runs out of reactions.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Matt - would you mind chiming in here on this please ?

Not much need - this is entirely intentional.

 

[iamtim]

NO , it can't work that way because the example with the Broo

I've learned to pay no attention to the examples in this book...

 

[atgxtg]

NO , it can't work that way because the example with the Broo

I've learned to pay no attention to the examples in this book...

Not a good sign, especially combined with Matt's "answer".

 

[iamtim]

Not a good sign, especially combined with Matt's "answer".

Yeah, puzzling response. What was entirely intentional? Surprise as per the rules? Or per the example? Were they written with the intent of generating a question like Melkor's?

 

[atgxtg]

Not a good sign, especially combined with Matt's "answer".

Yeah, puzzling response. What was entirely intentional? Surprise as per the rules? Or per the example? Were they written with the intent of generating a question like Melkor's?

Or perhaps the bague condradictory wording that leads to confusion is what was intentional? Now I think we both are starting to feel like Melkor. :?: :shock: :?:

 

[iamtim]

Or perhaps the bague condradictory wording that leads to confusion is what was intentional?

Actually, I don't think the wording of the rules in this case is vague or contradictory, unless you factor in the example.

Almost exactly like the combat situation, if you read the rules in and of themselves, I think they're pretty clear.

I think in this instance the design is a wee bit suspect. I mean, holy crap, in Melkor's example above the surpriser is going to get ALL HIS COMBAT ACTIONS unopposed against the surprisee because the surprisee is at an effective SR 0 FOR THE ENTIRE ROUND and can't react to Combat Actions before his SR.

:shock:

 

[Melkor]

Now I think we both are starting to feel like Melkor. :?: :shock: :?:

LOL - If you would have seen Matt's private message response to my question about the Parry and Dodge tables (which was similar to his response in this thread), you'd be even more conflicted. :lol:

So I'm assuming according to Matt's response that the poor sucker in my example would be....s#@t outta' luck ?

 

[iamtim]

So I'm assuming according to Matt's response that the poor sucker in my example would be....s#@t outta' luck ?

Yup. Poor Mr. SR 10 is hosed. Just hosed. Although he can hope for a string of good Resilience rolls. Heh.

 

[Melkor]

Yup. Poor Mr. SR 10 is hosed. Just hosed. Although he can hope for a string of good Resilience rolls. Heh.

Hosed and limbless from the combats I have run using MRQ.

That's going to really make me have to drive home a point with my players: Ambush often, but don't be the victim of an ambush.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Yup. Poor Mr. SR 10 is hosed. Just hosed. Although he can hope for a string of good Resilience rolls. Heh.

Hosed and limbless from the combats I have run using MRQ.

That's going to really make me have to drive home a point with my players: Ambush often, but don't be the victim of an ambush.

This is exactly the point - surprise is not a mid-level bonus as it is in D20. If you get surprise, you have one hell of an advantage. Think of it as a reward for tactical play (or a great leveller for low-powered enemies against strong PCs).

 

[iamtim]

Hosed and limbless from the combats I have run using MRQ.

COME BACK ERE AND TAKE WHAT'S COMIN' TO YA! I'LL BITE YOUR LEGS OFF!

 

[iamtim]

If you get surprise, you have one hell of an advantage.

'Course, that's probably why you made surprise dependant upon GM interpretation instead of some random roll.

It would all sorts of suck if you were left hosed and limbless because of a random "surprise" roll.

 

[MongooseMatt]

If you get surprise, you have one hell of an advantage.

'Course, that's probably why you made surprise dependant upon GM interpretation instead of some random roll.

It would all sorts of suck if you were left hosed and limbless because of a random "surprise" roll.

Exactly