BFalcon said:
Well, I was going by the name... as meaning either crystalised iron or crystals with iron - I've also seen it referred to as Crystaliron Steel, although that may be a typo...
Yep - that is why I dislike that name - and, yes, some dolt probably did refer to it as 'Crystaliron Steel' :roll:
Fortunately, 'crystaliron' doesn't exist, so that form of 'steel' can still have sci-fi properties... unfortunately, Titanium Steel is real (for game purposes).
BFalcom said:
...Not saying that you're right or wrong - just pointing out a few issues...
No ego investment here, enjoying the discussion. :wink:
You make good points, we just disagree on the specifics...
Hull shape for ships has more to do with the quality of floating (and movement) than the mere act - i.e. your starship
will float if its density is less than the liquid, it
just might not float the way the occupants want it to! :twisted:
The reason I am posting this drivel, is that real life doesn't give most of us a good feel for density. Take a 50 pound iron gym weight (at your own risk
). Most people would call it heavy and expect it to sink. Take the same weight, but make it 8 times 'thicker' and most people will still expect it to sink. It will float, of course. (See below)
Most starships, by the nature of their design intent of moving things, typically have a large ratio of gas to solid when it comes to volume (i.e. open space), and so a lower density.
Yep, nautical ships are not armoured on all surfaces - I even alluded to the 'all or nothing' armouring doctrine which eliminates even more armour - but, surface area to volume ratios are generally quite huge. Submarines are often designed, IIRC, to keep their density high enough so that their average density is close enough to water so that submerging is easier.
That said, with game armour coming in % ship volume chunks and Titanium being about 4.5x denser than water (of course, Traveller uses Titanium
Steel which most alloys are slightly denser, but one could use a lighter alloy of Ti Steel, still containing iron), an otherwise empty starship could not have more than 22% armour... which actually works quite close to the max armour allowed of 22.5% (9 for TL 9 ship). Since the average density of the rest of the ship would likely be less than water anyway, that means that only maximally armoured fueled ships would sink at TL7 assuming actual density of common Titanium Steel.
Since most warships aren't maximally armoured, and assuming higher tech armour 'handwavium' materials are not overly dense (though 'Bonded Superdense' might not qualify ), almost all larger warships would float - on water and anything denser. YMMV - and other versions of Traveller may state densities that counter this. (Thus actually stretching my suspension of disbelief - part of the reason I never played any of these others - more detail, more inconsistencies...).
I speak of liquid rather than water as
Traveller yields the opportunity for starships to 'land' on liquid bodies (pools, lakes, oceans, etc.) like methane or aqueous ammonia. Their densities are a lot lower (methane @-164C being .46 that of water) - so most ships may sink, or be easier to intentionally sink, without being flooded.
Speaking of water, salt water, is not really that much more dense than water (1025 vs 1000 kg/cubic m) - but it makes a big difference for us humans. And, liquid water is dense - pure iron is only around 8 times more dense*. One Traveller design ton (13.5 cubic meters) masses 13.5 metric tons if pure water (at max density, i.e. 4 degrees C*).
* - of course, densities are based on averages and impurities and temperature impact that.
