Sulust

[IronChefZod]

Did they change the stats on the Sulust in Armageddon or something? Why all of a sudden is it supposed to be so great?

With SFOS stats the Prefect and Dargan are arguably as good or better and with the tournament lists I'd a Dargan or a Centurion are just as good as well.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

I used 2 prefects in my fleet today at the tournament rather than a sulust (I only have one)

The winner of the tournament with a Centari fleet had a dargan and a prefect and no Sulusts.

So I agree with you, Sulust is not better than the dargan or Prefect. I rate the prefect above the dargan...

 

[katadder]

prefect is better ship bu i think its beam needs to come down 1AD to make it like an armoured centurion. the sullust is fine, its a sniper, get close it dies easy.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

I have to say that as a Centauri player I think a few of the Centauri ships are a little over powered.

I also think some of their ships are under powered.

Changes that reduced the best (prefect / Tertius) and boosted the worst (Haven / Kutai / Demos) and perhaps the Vorchan would I think be a good idea. That is only my humble opinion.

 

[Target]

I prefer the Sulust over the Prefect because of it's interceptors and just looks far better. I play EA a lot, need interceptors because of missles and T Bolts

 

[IronChefZod]

The Prefect has higher hull so it ought to last longer. My Sulust's interceptors tend to get depleted real fast with crappy weapons and let the missles right through. I think over the course of the game hull 6 works better.

With the fighter changes in Armageddon, it's even easier to deplete interceptors. I just don't see the Sulust as overpowered and anyone calling it "cheesy" probably needs to take a good, long, hard look at the Centauri fleet list.

 

[Ripple]

You all missed the point.

The Sulust discussion started way back, and was tabled by the tournament list. Much like the Sagitarious almost no one is complaining about one Sulust in a fleet, its the Beam Team of Death that caused the questions. Centauri fleets being able to genereate so many Beam DD SAP dice at range twenty five ment many fleets could not survive to cross the range.

The comments on the sulust also almost always included comments on the Prefect and the Tertius as well. Again the tourney list tabled such discussions as neither ship was available. If you were looking for a balanced game you simply broke out the tourney lists and avioded taking the two accepted broken hulls in the list. Not saying there were more or less, just that two were accepted as broken by the majority of active posters.

The Prefect vs Sulust debate is not one most folks who object to either one engage in because most folks who consider one broken consider bother broken for the same reason. Two many accurate, heavy damage beam dice at long range. The fact that unlike other races high beam ships in raid the centauri do not have low damage, low hull, only moderate range, boresight or a mix of the above has lead to the discussions.

As to anyone who has a problem with the Sulust should look at the Centurians variants...well they are. Those defending the Sulust should look to other fleets and find example of ships that have similar capabilities. There are some, the Teshlan I think is the Minbari version of a Prefect, and try to argue that the Sulust/Prefect is balanced with them. Saying my broken race is balanced within itself does not help your cause, much like early earth is going to have a hell of a time calling itself balanced with the new Sagitarious at skirmish. Sure, early earth may blow at war/battle, but who cares you'll just live the skirmiish swarm.

Ripple

 

[Voronesh]

Actually correct.

Narn get nothing comparable to that, and only get even with the Ka'T**, and well that one is kinda considered to be top too.

But actually in regard to the Sags, they dont blow at batlle lvl games. Thats either 15 Sags....can you say goodbye to the War lvl ship youu brought?
Or 10 Sags with 5 Novae as fighter screen and lets get close an personal factor..........

Yes the Sulust is ok if yout ake on or two, but a fleet of them is hurty.

 

[katadder]

Actually correct.

Narn get nothing comparable to that, and only get even with the Ka'T**, and well that one is kinda considered to be top too.

But actually in regard to the Sags, they dont blow at batlle lvl games. Thats either 15 Sags....can you say goodbye to the War lvl ship youu brought?
Or 10 Sags with 5 Novae as fighter screen and lets get close an personal factor..........

Yes the Sulust is ok if yout ake on or two, but a fleet of them is hurty.

narn get nothing comparable? tyr a squadron of ka'tans in ur rear arc having jumped in boresighting you with 12AD of beams and all for skirmish ships, then add in the 8 all round firepower too.

 

[Reaverman]

Actually correct.

Narn get nothing comparable to that, and only get even with the Ka'T**, and well that one is kinda considered to be top too.

But actually in regard to the Sags, they dont blow at batlle lvl games. Thats either 15 Sags....can you say goodbye to the War lvl ship youu brought?
Or 10 Sags with 5 Novae as fighter screen and lets get close an personal factor..........

Yes the Sulust is ok if yout ake on or two, but a fleet of them is hurty.

narn get nothing comparable? tyr a squadron of ka'tans in ur rear arc having jumped in boresighting you with 12AD of beams and all for skirmish ships, then add in the 8 all round firepower too.

Even so you won that game 20-0 against my Narn fleet with your Hull 6 ships

 

[katadder]

only 2 hull 6 ships and one got raped pretty early (the prefect)

 

[Reaverman]

only 2 hull 6 ships and one got raped pretty early (the prefect)

True

 

[katadder]

and you still scared the bejesus out of me, all these people saying its hard to boresight, think all your boresighst were boresighted every turn, altho winning init the 1st 3 turns and outnumbering me helped.

 

[Reaverman]

and you still scared the bejesus out of me, all these people saying its hard to boresight, think all your boresighst were boresighted every turn, altho winning init the 1st 3 turns and outnumbering me helped.

Yeah, but I suppose with all battles...thats lady luck can be fickle

 

[Voronesh]

@ katadder

Please try to read my posts. Every time i actually even just hint at a Centauri ship being a tad little bit overpowered, by using PG mind you. You get all "But oh no, you are so wrong."

Only this time you even just repeat my post.

Yes the Narn dont get anything comparable, at RAID.........and whoops what do i say then, they get even with the Ka'T**, which is oh shock, at SKIRMISH.

You say all correct things, but next time please try to actually say something new, instead of just repeating me.

Sry for this post, but its just grating on my nerves a little. Because its so glaring obvious.

Having fleets made up of good and bad ships, doesnt make it balanced.....it only means that certain ships just dont see the battlefield.

 

[Ripple]

I did not mean that the Sag was weak at battle/war, I ment that the early earth ship did not have a strong ship that was rated battle/war.

And if he jumps out of a warp point boresighted it does him no good as he cannot fire. Why exactly did this scare you?

Boresighting is hard inside the closing furball, where most fights are won or lost. You are right if I have someone just running ahead of me like a nilly little girl it does present much less of a problem.

On that topic its a crap load easier if I outnumber an opponent two to one and he barely moves as a lot of beam fleets tend to do, but then he is firing back at me usually.

The issue with boresights is usually you can pick what ships I can and cannot shoot this mean you can protect hurt ships by moving them late. Or you could have total sink ships like a few corvans that are on the edge of the battle move first so I cannot target any ship in your core until you run out of corvans.

Sorry Katadder but boresights are a pain in the keister and having to re-argue the point regularly with folks on all the ways to bone a bore fleet gets on my nerves. Just like manuever to shield spreads damage which order you move in against a bore fleet spreads the damage. Bore fleets cannot pick and choose who they shoot everybody else can.

Ripple

 

[katadder]

whilst that is true when you have enough init sinks as ka'tan fleets generally do then getting the boresights isnt hard. and no they couldnt fire on me staright out the JP, but as my tertius isnt all that fast it couldnt exactly leave them for dust (plus there was 3 more ka'tans in front) and then when the scout makes the lock on roll its gets quite scary. yes in the later stages of the battle it gets hard to boresight but by the later stages i had a criplped corvan, a fresh corvan and my tertius left which made some amazing come about rolls to blow away the remaining narn. boresight might be difficult but in scenarios where you start 36" away from each other, have numerically greater numbers and win init with faster ships then its not that hard. i think his ka'tans never missed a chance for boresight until about the last turn and thats not cos i played badly.

 

[Reaverman]

whilst that is true when you have enough init sinks as ka'tan fleets generally do then getting the boresights isnt hard. and no they couldnt fire on me staright out the JP, but as my tertius isnt all that fast it couldnt exactly leave them for dust (plus there was 3 more ka'tans in front) and then when the scout makes the lock on roll its gets quite scary. yes in the later stages of the battle it gets hard to boresight but by the later stages i had a criplped corvan, a fresh corvan and my tertius left which made some amazing come about rolls to blow away the remaining narn. boresight might be difficult but in scenarios where you start 36" away from each other, have numerically greater numbers and win init with faster ships then its not that hard. i think his ka'tans never missed a chance for boresight until about the last turn and thats not cos i played badly.

To tell the truth, I think we both played well in that game

 

[katadder]

yep we did, i really thought i was lost, until my tertius kept making come about rolls.

 

[Voronesh]

Actually a balanced fleet has less problems than a pure Ka'Tan fleet.

As an example, i use a Bin'Tak, a G'Quan, 2 Rothans, and from now on 4 Ka'Tans in that fleet.

Means i have two ships to move, that dont need to boresight. First turn the Ka'Tans prolly wont be able to fire anyway. And later on i can sacrifice the G'Quan during movement phase. It can take alot of damage, and the beam isnt all that much. Plus when you have Ship breakers loaded, i tend to go for APTE as well.

Ripple you are right, boresighting is a huge pain. Made my friend lose a game EA vs Vorlons, only cause i had enough destroyers on my side, to keep him from boresighting. Blammo heavy cruiser untouched.

OTOH Narn vs EA plays quite different. You have to give up ships anyway, it only depends on which ships you move first. Sometimes i dont care which ships in my Bin'Taks boresight, i just shoot the next best one.

But it does give quite an advantage to non-boresight fleets. Normally balanced by smaller numbers. But when you can reach those splendid 90 degrees, all of the sudden APTE (Tertius) or CAF (Primus) become all that more interesting, and not things with a huge cost added, also even if the 2 AD beam on the Octs aft seems puny, anything that gets into that acr is gonna feel it anyway. APTE a Bin'Tak, and lose the 6 AD beam?? Worth it, rarely. 4 AD aft, surely lovely, used not so often. Unless you get lucky with Come abouts.

Boresighting is rather nicely balanced, only when fleets start to lean on it too heavily, does it become a problem. And scouts, im not so fond of them, 5+ for redirect? Bleehh, Vree gave it good. Shadows too. Even Centauri get crazy with corvans, as ini sinks, and free scout thrown in. Any other i dont know about.