Suggestion: New Ship Classes

[godsgopher]

We have so far seen a general list of ship classes to be introduced with Noble Armada. However the general classes of Dreadnought, Cruiser, Destroyer, and Frigate do not begin to fully encompass the range of vessels that could potential exist in the Fading Suns universe. The intention of this thread is to suggest new classes of vessels of more special designs than the general ship classes to be released at present. So please only post ideas that are more unique than say, "Hay what about a cruiser with more guns?"

I suggest looking to history of naval warfare to inspiration as well as to other games you may have played. Please try and keep in mind the setting of this game and its limited tech base. However there is no harm in wishing, or perhaps suggesting some Lost 2nd Republic Tech

 

[godsgopher]

As I started this only fair I get the ideas rolling.

Monitor Class,
Inspired by the first Iron Clad warship in the American civil war, this design latter reemerged during World War I and II. Monitors generally were built around a single large weapon system. In the setting of Fading Suns this would be the Mason Guns. While they do mount serious firepower, they are not overly large vessels. Historical monitors might mount a single, twin 12-15'' gun turret in a heavily armored hull of relatively small size. Such vessels were intended as slow mobile sea guns.

Such a vessel in fading suns would most likely be a system defense ship. Slow and Lumbering, designed to orbit near a gate that was expecting hostile action. While sporting decent shields for a ship its size it would none the less not possess major hull Hit points. However it would probably have a number of marines on board to repel raiders and assist with ship inspections for local in system forces.

 

[godsgopher]

Fire-ship,

While not a class per-say Fire Ships played a role in the Napoleonic period of wooden ships. The idea was to take a vessel that you had captured or which was no longer of significant use and launch it into an enemy harbor after setting it ablaze. Ships of the time were often old and their timbers dry with age, soaked with pitch and flammable paints. Fire was therefor the worse enemy of such ship, so a fire ship while a one time use weapon, was a much to be feared tactic.

In Noble Armada such a vessel could take the form of a Frigate too badly damaged in battle to be worth repairing but that could still be used in a desperate one way mission. Such a ship might be loaded with explosives and programed to ram the nearest vessel, star fortress, or Shipyard of an enemy. Such a ship could also be used to clear the path through a known minefield or even an asteroid field were it small enough.

 

[godsgopher]

ESPer Lens Ship

Alright here is a non-historical idea, but I think it fits in the setting. In Fading Suns Psychic powers are a known quantity. Surely the 2nd Republic studied such effects and "perhaps" saw a military application. "If" they were able to create psionic focusing lens that could amplify the mental abilities of Thaumaturgists, such a device could be mounted on a ship and deployed as a weapon. Obviously such a ship would be rare in the extreme and quite possibly unique to any fleet. Though I suspect the Church just might have a few in cold storage if such a thing were to exist.

 

[godsgopher]

Mauler Class Warship

I have no doubt that at some point in the history of Fading Suns some Starship Designer took a look at the Heavy Meson Cannon, and asked himself whats the smallest hull if we took all the extras out, that we could fit that monster into? The answer would be a Mauler, a destroyer sized vessel built entirely around a Heavy Mason Cannon. Don't expect to see any comforts of home here, the ship has small engines, no maneuverability, very few crew so it needs escorts to get it there. But lets face it Destroyers are a dime a dozen compared to the few dozen dreadnoughts in existence.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Good ideas all, and there will indeed be some new ship classes appearing over the next few months!

 

[godsgopher]

Q-Ship,

During WWI some sneaky Navy man said "Wouldn't it be great if you could hide a warship in plain sight?" The result was the legendary Q-Ships, often civilian freighters converted to the needs of wartime. Q-ships server by hunting down unsuspecting merchantmen, or luring in unsuspecting pirates.

In Noble Armada Q-ships could be buried in an unarmed convoy to protect against convoy raids. (Which no doubt will be as popular a scenario as it was in B5) Or as part of a covert attack fleet in a campaign game. Admit it! you know those sneaky Decados would do it! Not to mention the League.

Obviously at present no "Civilian" vessels have been mentioned for production, but they were in B5 and I can't see merchant traffic being any different in this game.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Obviously at present no "Civilian" vessels have been mentioned for production, but they were in B5 and I can't see merchant traffic being any different in this game.

The League fleet is in playtest right now, and includes civilian ships - and plays in a very different way to the other fleets!

 

[godsgopher]

Stealth Hunter-Killer

Bare with me this is another of those 2nd Republic ideas. The Heavy Mason Cannon is a truly awesome weapon but its obvious limitation is its very short range. I think its original developers first thought was to build a massive vessel around it so it would actually make it into range, and thus the Dreadnoughts were born. But what if someone had thought to make it a first and last strike weapon? Instead build a silent low signature vessel to stealthily creep up upon an unsuspecting warship and take it out before the enemy could respond?

In Fading Suns such a ship "IF" it existed, would basically be very similar to a mauler. Roughly Destroyer in size, but with no other armaments than its heavy Mason Cannon. It would be slow and unmaneuverable due to its small power plants designed to creep up upon an enemy. Also such a ship would have no shields and only bare bones structure integrity. It would have to survive by its high stealth characteristic alone!

I would go so far as to suggest a special rule, that such a ship could be deployed well forward of the fleet, and its location remain unknown (But well documented by the owning player) Until it made its first move. It would remain a wild card until that first move.

 

[Rick]

Hmm, mixed impressions on some of these - nice ideas, especially like the idea of monitors/system defence ships. It does mention in the Starship design section of the rpg that only Cruiser size ships can mount the light Meson guns and only Dreadnoughts can mount the large, spinal mount Heavy Meson gun (boresight?), possibly due to energy consumption as well as space constraints. Whilst it might have been possible to create smaller ships with Meson guns at the height of the 2nd Republic, I imagine that they would have been destroyed or cannibalised for spare parts to keep the dreadnoughts/Cruisers in operation. From the rpg background, I imagine that the ships available are just the remnants of much larger fleets of the 2nd Republic - what you've got left are the survivors of centuries of wars, jury-rigging and breaking up for spare parts. It seems to me that there would be more variations on an existing hull, than more specialised "one-off" ships. Again, from the rpg background, technology-wise, most systems can be repaired by technicians, but they can't build new items much more complex than we have in the 21st century.
Personally, I'd like to see different house designs, not just 1 galliot, 1 frigate, 1 destroyer, but maybe 2 or 3 designs in each class.

 

[Greg Smith]

... and only Dreadnoughts can mount the large, spinal mount Heavy Meson gun (boresight?), possibly due to energy consumption as well as space constraints.

While in 'real' terms, these guns do only fire forward, in ACTA terms they are front arc. Boresight was removed from ACTA:NA because of the boresight/initiative issue in B5 ACTA.

 

[godsgopher]

Rick,

You make some excellent points about the limits on some of these vessels. And I particularly like your points about what was possible for the 2nd Republic Tech base. Still I'm just trying to generate a few ideas as one never knows what might inspire someone to make something truly amazing

Here is another...

Assault Shuttle
Designed by taking a heavy fighter and removing its heavy ordinance in favor of extended crew compartments and life support in order to transport marines directly to enemy vessels. Assault Shuttles possess grapple cables and high yield industrial laser units to quickly cut through an enemies hull to deliver there troops. Perhaps a favorite of the Hazat who have the extra space on there large carriers?

 

[Rick]

Whoops - forgot about the boresight going, lol! My rulebook is in the post will be my (temporary) defence! :roll:

I'm not trying to stop anyone's creative flow, I'm a firm believer in the more ideas you throw at something, the more likely a few of 'em will stick......

Love the idea of the assault shuttle - think there's a bit in one of the sourcebooks about a troop assault lander - probably a similiar thing! Lots of NA ships have gatling lasers, which are designed to cut grapples, kill fighters and generally make life unpleasant for anyone getting close - it'd have to be tougher than a normal fighter, but sounds like something the Vuldrok barbarians would try as well!

 

[Clanger]

In Noble Armada (1st ed) you did get Assault Landers Decados Defiler, Hawkwood Vindicator and Brother Battle Redeemer.

In the Fading Suns Players Guide. You have a Imperial Combat Pod Raptor Egg made in the Imperial Shipyards on Tethys. This would be like your Assault Shuttles, though they magnetically lock on and then burn their way through with laser cutters. I would think this would be a modified Breaching Pod or Heavy Fighter option.

 

[godsgopher]

Minesweeper / Mine-layer

"Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead!" -Rear Admiral David Farragut US Navy 1864. Mines are one of the simplest and most effective defenses yet devised by science. They are cheap, easily stored, and frighteningly effective.

In Noble Armada it is inconceivable that the fleets of the noble houses would not deploy mines as a cheap fixed defense during wartime. Mine would be incredibly effective as a gate defense. Gate are huge constructions, but compared to a solar system extremely tiny. This means any Noble house knows exactly from where an enemy will emerge into his territory, the very fact of which would make Gate assaults one of the most violent battles a naval officer is likely to see. Mine also could be placed in gaps around asteroid belts as well as barriers around forts to prevent boarding actions.

To deliver these small but deadly cargo's and to counteract them, Houses need Mine-layers/sweepers. These most likely would be converted Galliots who have exchanged there troop compartments for mine storage racks and deployment equipment. Such ships could lay several patterns of mines and have the equipment to remove them from space, making them both a defensive and offensive vessel.

A few ideas for mines.

I see three general types of mines. Magnetic Iron mines, Cheaply made fission mines designed to detonate upon detecting the steel hull of a starship, such a mine would explode when any vessel even a friendly ones who ventured too close.

Second, IFF Mines, these more complex mines, possess electronic Friend or Foe recognition in the form of a radio code, which when received would allow said ship to pass through them unharmed, but would still remain effective against any enemy ship without such a code.

Third, and most expensive of all, Advanced Seeker mines, these would have advanced detection sensors able to properly identify an enemy vessel and actually move "abet very slowly" the entire patten of mines towards the enemy.

Rule wise, I would recommend a "pattern" of mines to be a template placed on the board which was between 3-5 inches in diameter. Any vessel or enemy vessel passing through it would be attacked. It would be assumed each patter represents dozens of mines so the pattern would not be removed after the first ship passed through it. A minelayer most likely would be able to lay down 4-6 patterns before exhausting its onboard supply. The removal of mines, could be accomplished by use of a special action, failure would mean the ship would receive an attack.

 

[Rick]

Like the mines idea, but lethal to ships and might damage gates as well - what might work is an EMP minefield, designed to disable a ship, or at least strip it's shields away so it can be boarded and captured!

Some mines today have passive sonar sensors linked to a computer that can identify ships passing by the noise they make in the water, even get a rough idea of direction and distance! This means that they can be programmed to explode when a specific ship passes at it's closest point to the mine. Whilst that level of complexity might be beyond the game, it could be possible to have mines with a stealth trait and say, set them to explode as a certain size of ship (or bigger) passes by.

Rather than having the minefield move, each mine could launch a torpedo or a small salvo of missiles or rockets on a rough bearing to the target (probably losing the "guided" trait).

Hmm having said the mines idea is lethal, I think I just made it more so, lol!

 

[godsgopher]

Oh, I don't know you could be onto something. I do like the idea of EMP Mines. however to combat the problem of mines being too "Lethal" all we need is a rule adjustment. Say that any ship entering a minefield template receives an attack of

1 AD, Guided, Slow, Multi-hit 3

or for cheaper mines

1 AD, Slow, Multi-hit 2

If you want to increase the damage, a minelayer would have to lay down multiple templates in the same space. So if you dumped all your mines in one spot you could be looking at 4-6 AD of dice. However this would mean you have invested your entire minelayer's value to a 3-5 inch section of the board. Think carefully before deploying! The real function of mines to my way of thinking it to try and restrict your opponents movement on the board. Depending on how many points you invest in your mines of course. If you go the cheap route all you have done is blocked both players from particular areas of the gaming board. With the more expensive mines, you have only blocked your enemy. Also because mines can be represented as an Attack dive value, that means your opponent may decided to chance crossing the field as he might (depending on the density of the field) cross it unscathed.

 

[Clanger]

A thing to remember in Fading Suns / Noble Armada is one of Technology. Also you might have to be careful if the Church says a certain peice of Technology is Proscribed, you will not get your Noble hands on it. All in the safety of your Soul of course. So advanced tech mines may only be the toys for the League, the Church or the Imperials.

Also space combat is an extension of Dueling to some Nobles. They believe in ransom's and prizes. The use of mines to some Royal Houses would be a cowards weapon. As even the smallest spacecraft is worth a prize and ransom.

Mines would not be used to seed as a Gate defense. The Gates if damaged could never be repaired and that could cut off a System, no one would take the risk.

 

[Rick]

Good points - I can't see anyone using mines anywhere near a gate, but minefields are a defensive weapon; a bit like a barbed-wire fence in space! I can see Noble Houses using them to defend certain areas - in effect, placing them "off-limits" to combat, a bit like placing a wall around a town or city. Of course, any Noble who hides behind a minefield rather than coming out to do honourable combat might well be labelled a coward! I take the point about the church as well - any mines with a complex thinking machine might be seen as a "self-aware" abomination to the Pancreator.

 

[godsgopher]

Mines have a defiant place in combat. The ability to ward off Galliots from dumping endless streams of troops into defending fortifications can hardly be overstated. As to those how feel the use of static defenses are a dishonorable means of combat, well as a faithful Decados its been my experience that such persons are seldom still around to criticizes our tactics by the time the Ball season rolls around. Still the points about the Church are well taken, and after all we Decados would never dream of breaking the prescriptions of the PanCreator. No doubt any such "Thinking Machines" placed in mines are the result of the League getting one of our munitions orders mixed up! You can hardly fault us for that, but perhaps some extra tithes early next season will help the Church understand the "depths" of our penitence