Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I add in a one tonne airlock to the docking clamps, though I suspect for the really large ones, you may have to account for a greater deal of traffic.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
Checking every book and yet still missed the HG reference for an actual tug! Son of a...
That pusher brace is merely the flattened forward hull. Like a naval tug it gently eases against a ship and applies controlled push. In port dock areas, the thrust is always going to be well below one G merely nudging them into place.
I wish the Small craft Performance by Hull volume was extended into the 100+ ton range so I could calculate maximum thrust ratings from the Special: Tugging rules in Starports page 111. Thrust 14, just from eyeballing the small craft table, looks like it drops off quickly with multiple hundred ton vessels. A 30 ton tug tugging a 70 ton Military Cargo Transport drops from Thrust 14 to Thrust 5. Tug rules also states multiple tug craft split the volume of a ship between then so many tugs in conjunction can move large ships. Must be a sight to see.
That pusher brace is merely the flattened forward hull. Like a naval tug it gently eases against a ship and applies controlled push. In port dock areas, the thrust is always going to be well below one G merely nudging them into place.
I wish the Small craft Performance by Hull volume was extended into the 100+ ton range so I could calculate maximum thrust ratings from the Special: Tugging rules in Starports page 111. Thrust 14, just from eyeballing the small craft table, looks like it drops off quickly with multiple hundred ton vessels. A 30 ton tug tugging a 70 ton Military Cargo Transport drops from Thrust 14 to Thrust 5. Tug rules also states multiple tug craft split the volume of a ship between then so many tugs in conjunction can move large ships. Must be a sight to see.
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Anonymous
Guest
OK, for those interested, I've extended the small drive table.
I can't upload it for you all to see cos the board attachment quota has been reached.
If you are interested, PM me your email address and I'll send you the PDF.
MEDIC!
I can't upload it for you all to see cos the board attachment quota has been reached.
If you are interested, PM me your email address and I'll send you the PDF.
MEDIC!
Reynard said:
Tugs do not need much more than 0.1 G to move anything..matter of fact in close quarters that's WAYYYYYY to fast when you consider how much mass is being moved.
If you want an fast and dirty rule,
Load limit of the tug: Find the highest Tonnage a drive can propel at 1 thrust..and subtract the tonnage of the tug from that number. the remainder is the usable load of the tug.
multiple tugs: divide the total tonnage of the target vessel by the useful load of the type of tug being used. the result is the number of tugs needed to safely move an object.
Single tug: divide the total tonnage of the target by the useful load of the tug...then divide 1 by the result..that gives you the partial thrust point the tug can generate with that load attached...if it's below 0.01 the tug cant generate enough useful thrust to move the target. Even 0.01 meters (1 centimeter) per second acceleration is enough to move an object when your talking about less than a few hundred meters clearance.
when using multiple tugs once the tugs lock onto the tow points on the target vessels hull.assume those are included in the hull tonnage for simplicity,all you need to know is how many tugs you need to move at 1Gee.
At that point the tugs and the ship work as a coordinated unit, and only the docking pilot needs to make any rolls....which should only come up if there is a severe situation such as heavy damage, or someone suddenly loosing power....in real life when that happens there is a LOT of cursing, bending metal, and people scrambling for their lives.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Like I said, sZ is four hundred and eighty thrust, though you're more likely gets a better ratio with sKs.
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Anonymous
Guest
I know diddly about sea going tugs but if my guess is right they have seriously big engines and lots of power but the gearing is stupidly low. They can't go fast but they can move a mountain.
There isn't really a rule to let you tweak power that way, Traveller's ship designs are just speed, not torque.
Then there's the issue in space of zero friction. Push it once and off it goes, it doesn't parallel well with sea going operations.
There isn't really a rule to let you tweak power that way, Traveller's ship designs are just speed, not torque.
Then there's the issue in space of zero friction. Push it once and off it goes, it doesn't parallel well with sea going operations.
hiro said:
only seen them when they were moving around platforms for drilling operations..from a distance...not for me let me tell ya.
The water makes adds drag to the formula...that's for sure. fortunately in zero gee and vacuum you need exactly as much energy to stop an object. the curve is smoother and more predictable without things like wind, water currents, and such.
alex_greene
Guest
I've seen it. It's amazing, like watching ants pulling along a cow carcass.
It isn't the acceleration that's the problem. You could get something to accelerate by just firing docking thrusters along the desired vector.
The problem is deceleration of a body in motion, to match the relative velocity of the station or object that it is approaching.
Let's say you've got a bunch of tugs and they accelerate a 10,000 ton hulk 0.1G. They would have to turn it around at its highest velocity and accelerate 0,1G in the opposite direction to bring her to a relatively slow speed, and zero by the time it comes into contact with the dock.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Attach like a leech and rotate engineering.
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Anonymous
Guest
Nerhesi made a post yesterday I strongly agree with.
And you've just posted to the thread!
I think Traveller's ship designs are the way they are cos it was the visual ethic and overall it's stuck that way. The 100dT scout ship set the benchmark.
I'm fine with that but I'll pass on Flash Gordon thanks, too much like dildos in space!
And you've just posted to the thread!
I think Traveller's ship designs are the way they are cos it was the visual ethic and overall it's stuck that way. The 100dT scout ship set the benchmark.
I'm fine with that but I'll pass on Flash Gordon thanks, too much like dildos in space!
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Anonymous
Guest
There's not a whole heap of difference...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Docking at a docking ring has got to be interesting.
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Anonymous
Guest
Maybe someone can link some HR Giger images?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
From a discussion in COTI.
hiro said:
Our space station is boosted into higher orbit when the shuttle used to dock with it. For basic towing you don't need, or shouldn't need, anything special when you have a specialized craft doing that. That, to me at least, just makes too much common sense. At some point any space vessel needs to be towed somewhere, ergo every space vessel should have an attachment point for one or more tugs.
Docking tubes should not be used for that, as they would be too flimsy to towing purposes. Acceleration or braking would put to much torsional stress on it and break it free. At least as I see docking tubes extended form another ship. Maybe a highly reinforced or specialized one could be exempted.
As to the thrust, you hit the problem right on the head. Using the rule book (core or HG) doesn't work because the lowest G factor is 1. And nobody should be towing much of anything at 1G except moving away from busy space areas. A lot of tug work will be done around stations or orbits, thus it would be done at low speeds. Which is why I use my rule of thumb - it works regardless of the mass. I didn't mention the other part of the equation - common sense. A 10ton tug isn't going to be moving a 40,000 ton ship anywhere, at least not anytime soon. But it should be able to handily move a 200ton free trader, or a 500 ton yacht or whatever of similar size.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Space Stations made 0.1 gee canon, though surprisingly inefficient.
