SU Storage - Poll

[EccentRick]

The storage of capital ship Supply Units (SU) has been subject to a revision or two, all of which appear to have gaps.

The consistent part: Capital Ships consume an amount of SU equal to their tonnage divided by 100 each day (by default). Most ships contain enough supplies for 100 days. One ton of supplies will contain 100 SU.
[SU represents food for the crew, replacement parts for the ship, and other miscellaneous supplies separate from the tracked large expendables like fuel and large ordnance (e.g. missiles)]

The Naval Campaign Sourcebook initially presented SU storage as:

A starship is assumed to carry enough spares lockers, spud bunkers, and other stowage for its normal level of supplies without needing to use cargo space for the purpose.

A ship at full supply capacity, not using any additional cargo space, carries 100 days of spares and supplies in its internal bays and lockers. ... A warship on deployment can carry additional supplies in its cargo bay, but these are not available for immediate use; they must be broken out and set up in a ready configuration.

In contrast, High Guard 2022 swung in the opposite direction:

The ship should therefore have a minimum of [specific example] tons of cargo space so that it can potentially store 100 days' worth of SUs.

When designing a military capital ship, note the Maximum Stores tonnage in the cargo section of the ship sheet. Ideally, the overall cargo tonnage of the ship should be equal to or greater than this amount.

Both approaches seem to have logic holes (likely from abstraction simplification attempts). NCS hand-waved the ability to add hundreds of tons of supplies, over-stretching the ability of adventure-class ships to abstract their storage space requirements through the tonnages of staterooms and common areas. HG2022 overlooked that for locations to be functional they need a level of appropriate supplies 'on hand' - no one has the time to constantly run to the cargo bay to get the next step of the current assignment and dig out what they are specifically looking for from crates packed to maximize the use of space.

Where do you think the balance point is? How much of the supplies are 'on hand' for immediate use, to be replenished from the packed crates in the cargo bay at regular intervals?

 

[Galadrion]

The default amount of SU have storage space which does not come from cargo space. If a crew decides to pack extra supply units (oversupply), that can be stored in the cargo holds at the stated rate (1 ton per hundred SU), but these are not stored to be easily accessible - I believe the Naval Campaign Sourcebook has rules for breaking out supplies in this case.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The ship's SUs are to be found in the same area of the ship that high passenger baggage allowance is accounted for... the same place the waste heat goes.

 

[swordtart]

The ship's SUs are to be found in the same area of the ship that high passenger baggage allowance is accounted for... the same place the waste heat goes.

I had always assumed that the 1 Ton for High Passengers Baggage needed to to taken from Cargo. Assuming that is a DTon then High Passage means you are allocating 5 DTons each (basically 1 DTon of freight is included in the cost of their passage).

I say assuming it is a DTon. Other passenger baggage is stated in kg, so it could actually be a Ton mass (but then I'd expect it to be rendered Tonne). Other baggage can be assumed to be in the cabin space and we'll just have to hope your passenger doesn't decide to take the mickey by asking you to accommodate 100 kg of stick insects.

It may be like airlines where the baggage limit is in kg but they also have limits on the size of luggage that you often only find out on check-in that it will have to go in the hold (providing a useful additional revenue stream for "excess baggage") and opportunities for Admin checks in game

As for where SUs are stored I have assumed it doesn't make any difference whether your "cargo" is stored in compartments by staterooms (e.g. for the Luxury Goods you can have on hand for high passengers), storage areas close to the point of consumption, a central storage locker on the main deck or in a dedicated cargo bay(s). Cargo is defined as the space left over after you have accounted for all the ships components, we tend to assume it is in a single place as for player ships it is the means to generate income and is only off-loaded in port and stylistically we put it in a single hold (and put in cranes etc. to assit in loading).

SUs are not cargo that only gets moved when in port. They do not need to be stacked away under 400 DTons of miscellaneous cargo "for efficiency" even if they are in the "cargo hold". Any competent QM will recognise LIFO and they can as easily be stacked right next to the cargo access from the ship, or in a separate discrete store area adjacent to the main hold. Since you are building this capability in at design time you can decide what is appropriate. As a finger in the air I'd say a week supplies would be on hand in local storage at any one time close to point of consumption (e.g. cupboards or storage bins in work areas). There would be a further months supply held in a central QM stores separate from the "cargo hold". Crew in specific areas will draw from the QMs central supply to top up as needed. Periodically QM staff will dig out depleted supplies from deeper storage in the "cargo hold" as a maintenance task. All these storage areas deduct from your "Cargo" capacity regardless of where they are located. 1 DTon of SUs takes up 1 DTon wherever you put it.

 

[Anstett]

Voting Zero

Yes it needs to be accounted for
No it is not part of the normal cargo bays

There has to be the amount set aside to store these. Similar to the High Passenger storage. It is different than 'normal' cargo space available for spec trade/troop equipment/extended maneuvers supplies/etc.

 

[Condottiere]

Luggage is an interesting issue.

One tonne for high passage would obviously be volume reserved in the cargo hold.

Considering the cost of middle passage, one and two fifths cubic metres of luggage seems fair.

Then we have the question as to ten kilogrammes for steerage and low berths - it's easy to read this as volume, but I think it's more a rucksack, or carryon bag.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The ship's SUs are to be found in the same area of the ship that high passenger baggage allowance is accounted for... the same place the waste heat goes.

@Arkathan has the SU and passenger baggage allowance come out of cargo in his spreadsheet. Waste heat, well, that’s a different beast.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Luggage is an interesting issue.

One tonne for high passage would obviously be volume reserved in the cargo hold.

Considering the cost of middle passage, one and two fifths cubic metres of luggage seems fair.

Then we have the question as to ten kilogrammes for steerage and low berths - it's easy to read this as volume, but I think it's more a rucksack, or carryon bag.

Low berths have internal storage good enough for the allotment, I think.

 

[swordtart]

Luggage is an interesting issue.

One tonne for high passage would obviously be volume reserved in the cargo hold.

Considering the cost of middle passage, one and two fifths cubic metres of luggage seems fair.

Then we have the question as to ten kilogrammes for steerage and low berths - it's easy to read this as volume, but I think it's more a rucksack, or carryon bag.

100 kg won't take up much of the space allocated for the 4 Dton Middle passage stateroom. It is easier to enforce weight limit than a volume limit. It likely equates to 4 large suitcases or a couple of suitcases and a trunk or chest. If you do want to bring 100 kg of duck down then it is your problem to fit it into your cabin or to pay for additional freight in multiples of 1 DTon (or give your Steward a large tip and see if he can squirrel it away somewhere).

10 kg of normal luggage is easy to accommodate in overhead storage and twice that for a pair of basic passengers in a shared stateroom could fit under the bed. As Low Passengers get 10 kg as well we could establish that as the default per person allowance for any non-stateroom passenger (so Barracks, people in cabins etc). Airline carry-on is normally limited to around 10 kg as it is the limit that ensures passengers can put their own baggage in the overhead storage.

If you want to supplement your baggage you could always post it ahead to a Post-restant address. It may even travel with you if your carrier is also a mail carrier, but you won't have access to it in-journey.

 

[Condottiere]

If you know where to shop on arrival, you don't actually have to bring along a lot of stuff.

Speaking of barracks, I don't recall a luggage allowance for ship's crews, though I suppose we could default that to a hundred kilogrammes; probably less, for the troops.

For high passage, I would have gone one tonne in cargo, hundred kilogrammes in the stateroom; access to the cargo hold would be limited, and under supervision.

The stuff that I would travel with, would be things that are difficult to obtain at the destination, like weapons and personal armour, or expensive to begin with.

You could send ahead, or have onboard, a five tonne container, which, I believe defaults to about a thousand starbux per tonne, or as a whole, five kilostarbux.